Are we babying our pre-schoolers and beyond? (rant alert)

[Clary]

This has been bugging me for a while. I actually agree with another poster about not introducing PS2 etc too early, but OTOH, what is going on here:

• Child at DS2's nursery school who is aged 4.5 (no SN) is regularly pushed the 10-min walk home in his buggy. Also know loads of 3yos who go everywhere by buggy, even short distances.

• At craft activity at museum, one child (aged maybe 3) sat there while mother did entire cutting and sticking activity for him. Another had done some fabulous cutting out. How old are you? I asked in alarm (much better effort that my DS1 could manage). I'm 7, is the reply, but my mum did the cutting out for me. Whaaaat?

• The reception class children in school are taken in to the classes by their parents - but I am always amazed by the mums who take off and hang up coats, take out water bottles, put snacks into snack tray etc. Can their lo not do this?

No wonder the 4.5yos in our reception class can't put on their coats or manage the climbing frame. Our children may be little, and I'm all for them enjoying their childhood, but they also need to claim some independence, preferably before they start school, or they just won't know what's hit them. What does anyone else think?

Suspect the buggy thing is actually to make life easier for parents, I know someone still uses a buggy for her 4 year old because she says it's easier than having to keep an eye on her

As for school I don't think children should start until they are atleast 6 years anyway so can't help on that one

It's a bit difficult to judge, really without knowing the whole picture of a child's life. I can't see any harm in parents and children co-operating with each other and helping each other out with things when they can. 4.5 isn't very old.

what, really, so it's OK for a 4.5 yo to be in a buggy?

Frankly, I wouldn't want to be pushing it! But also, what kind of message is this giving the child?

I just think that when they start school (and they do start at 4 in the UK, so uinless you plan to home-ed, that's what your child will do) they need to have the independence of mind to do some things for themselves. Otherwise the reception class teacher will literally spend the entire day doing up their shoes and coats, wiping their bottoms and noses, ect etc.

Clary -- I'm with you. I must admit that I was surprised on teachers evening with DD Reception teacher last year that she felt the need to comment that DD did very well to get herself dressed by herself. Then found out most of her friends didn't dress themselves !

I'm of the opinion that they can't learn unless they try and do it. Also that you have to build stamina. After all, you don't start out running marathons though I am sure that is what it must feel like to a small person running around town doing errands and such. My DS (2.6) has a pushchair on the way to school for the school run as he would be a normal toddler and just want to look at everything. But on the way home he usually walks. And doesn't have one on the weekend unless we are going out all day (e.g. London)

I'm guilty as charged. I stil ldress my 5yo - but if I didn't she wouldn't, or would be so slow I'd be late for work.

Maybe I'll start quick dressing as a pasta jar incentive! She can dress herself and does at school.

but tenby girl, would you take her to a craft activity and the do it for her?
I'm not talking about letting a 2yo loose with a pair of dressmaking scissors - I'm talking about a 3-4yo being allowed to practise cutting out with safe blunt scissors while you watch.

No wonder the baseline assessment sees so many children saying "no, I can't do that".

"* Child at DS2's nursery school who is aged 4.5 (no SN) is regularly pushed the 10-min walk home in his buggy. Also know loads of 3yos who go everywhere by buggy, even short distances."

Child in buggy might be great at doing everything else for itself. Parent might find it the easiest way to get around.

"* At craft activity at museum, one child (aged maybe 3) sat there while mother did entire cutting and sticking activity for him. Another had done some fabulous cutting out. How old are you? I asked in alarm (much better effort that my DS1 could manage). I'm 7, is the reply, but my mum did the cutting out for me. Whaaaat?"

Parent and child working together? Can't see anything wrong with that. Perhaps mum enjoyed cutting out and child didn't. Doesn't mean child is incapable of it.

• The reception class children in school are taken in to the classes by their parents - but I am always amazed by the mums who take off and hang up coats, take out water bottles, put snacks into snack tray etc. Can their lo not do this?

The children can probably do this themselves but the parents are being nice to them? I know when I went in with my children I would hang up their coats just to be nice. They could do it themselves. By the time they get into y1 and parents can't go in with them they will have to do it for themselves.

If you don't want to do these things for your child for whatever reason, fine. I don't see why you feel so critical of other parents for the way they choose to do things.

I do agree clary. I have a friend who's DD started reception after Christmas and will be 5 in May. In the Christmas hols my friend was very embarassed to bump into the teacher while she had her DD in the pushchair.

DD is 2.8 and always walks on the school run, it is quite short though. She usually walks when we go shopping too. Today she should be at nursery and I should be at work but she woke up poorly, so we stayed off. But she brightened up, so I decided we would go shopping and she could have her pushchair. She was in it half the time and wanting to push it half the time. So I think she is on the verge of giving it up.

I do agree though that some children seem to use sippy cups (have ditched all these, although use a sports bottle in certain circumstances), pushchairs etc until they are quite old.

juule - I don't think parents should always put a child in a pushchair because it is easier. The child should be exercising and building up stamina.

I am uncomfortable with 4 year olds in buggies...my dd gave hers up (under some duress but we got there) shortly after her 3rd birthday.

My 2.10 year old will be 3 soon and I still need his buggy - we park around the corner from school and walk the short distance routinely, but on the occasional day when he is dog tired and practically asleep on his feet it is either put him in the buggy or leave him solo in the car (not in view of the school gates).

Also I cannot possibly do a satisfactory 2 mile walk with my large Bernese Mountain dog, JR cross breed and my ds without his buggy. He would manage for the first mile on foot, but would then flag quite dramatically on the way back - and I couldn't give him a piggyback and manage 2 dogs on leads simultaneously. I could exhort him to keep walking but going at a 0.25 mile per hour pace with him whining and crying and the dogs straining at the leash would probably have me wanting to hang myself from the nearest tree.

He does walk however whenever it is practical to encourage this (if we are out minus dogs for instance).

Re the cutting out - seems odd for the 7 year old. My 4 year old has only recently been allowed to use 'adult' scissors (under supervision)...she has been using child safety scissors for longer.

I see no problem with the reception class example that you pointed out. My dd is perfectly capable of hanging up her own coat, putting her lunch box and book bag in the appropriate place etc but if she wants to hand them to me to do whilst she quickly dives into whatever pre- registration activity appeals to her that is okay by mum. I am stunned that some busybody would be judging me for it.

Incidentally she has to tidy away her own toys at home etc...

But how do you know how much exercise the child in the pushchair gets at other times? Are they always in the pushchair? Is it just for the school run?

I meant "okay by me"...not "okay by mum"

I do help DD with hanging up coat and getting water bottle out - but she has only been at school 5 weeks, and she is [erfectly capable of doing these things herself, I am just trying to speed the process up at hte beginning of the day. Hmm, prob should back off.

However, totally agree re craft activities etc., show a child how to use a tool then let them get on with it.

well, my DD is 3 and we have to use a buggy for her on the school run for oldest DS. Otherwise we would have to leave 30 min earlier to get there. But she does walk on the way home. She does have a slight rotation on one knee though, and an intoeing gate, so walking takes extra effort and tires her. (she is not SN). As i also have a 16 mths old i have had to purchase a double for the school runs, although she does walk elsewhere. In September she will be starting nursery, and will have to walk over 3 1/2 miles each day, and i dont think she will manage that, especially after nursery, so will probably still be using the buggy then. Buggy boards are not an option, I'm too short. Both my older two can dress themselves though, and are fairly independent. Maybe there are good reasons for the parents/children you have seen to be the way they are...

I agree that unless you know the child fairly well juules you can't see the greater picture. But it is not always because the child is poorly, or the mum has to get child on to childminder then race off to work or whatever, sometimes it is just an unnecessary routine. Although I do wonder if some of the people in the White Rose Centre today would have preferred my DD to be safely strapped in her pushchair rather than pushing it herself and refusing to allow me to steer.

I won't even start on this one because I'm a Nanny!

My 3yr old Charge is the only child in her nursery class who uses her own 2 legs to get there & back!

How far is that ScottishThistle?

I had a Parent Consultation Day with ds Nursery Teacher last week. He is 4 yo btw. As of next Monday (half term) all Nursery Children will be left at the main door and taken into the Nursery Room by they Nursery Nurse and Teacher and they will encourage the children to take off coats and find pegs, put water bottles on names etc. I am all for this as ds just lobs coat followed by hat and legs it most mornings. I then pick up and hang etc. He can however dress himself every morning including shoes on right feet. A lot of the mums aren't going to like it though but the school policy is no parents in Reception class so they have start learning now apparently. I'm all for it tbh. There is a 4 yo is ds's class who is pushed there every morning and pushed home every afternoon as his mother says "he'll get tired". She lives 10 mins away

For her it's a 15min walk & she's been doing it since she was 2 1/2...I weaned all my Charges off the pushchair gradually from the age of 2 & they never complained about walking like I often hear some 4/5yr olds do!

I think part of the problem is if they don't get used to it they don't have the stamina. DD knows that she walks to school and back so we never have an issue. I started her off with it last spring when the weather improved and she turned two and she has got much quicker since.

I felt like I was babying 2.7 yr old dd by taking her coat off when she gets to nursery, but it would appear that I'm not...

Ds is always too tired to walk to the school to collect his sister at 3.30pm. However he can cycle there on his bike and he can run with his friends when he gets there so I don't listen to his protests

Well ScottishThistle - a 15 minute walk is nothing really and would never suffice for a dog walk (minimum 45 mins) - so my almost three year old still needs his buggy!

My ds2 will need his buggy until I have a car. I need something to put the damn shopping in!

My ds can be on his feet walking for quite a long time (when we potter off around the shops) but the distance covered is pretty negligible. There's all that stopping to pick up dead leaves, scratch his arse and stare into the sky for instance....

Sometimes that kind of walk is not practical