Are we babying our pre-schoolers and beyond? (rant alert)

[Clary]

This has been bugging me for a while. I actually agree with another poster about not introducing PS2 etc too early, but OTOH, what is going on here:

• Child at DS2's nursery school who is aged 4.5 (no SN) is regularly pushed the 10-min walk home in his buggy. Also know loads of 3yos who go everywhere by buggy, even short distances.

• At craft activity at museum, one child (aged maybe 3) sat there while mother did entire cutting and sticking activity for him. Another had done some fabulous cutting out. How old are you? I asked in alarm (much better effort that my DS1 could manage). I'm 7, is the reply, but my mum did the cutting out for me. Whaaaat?

• The reception class children in school are taken in to the classes by their parents - but I am always amazed by the mums who take off and hang up coats, take out water bottles, put snacks into snack tray etc. Can their lo not do this?

No wonder the 4.5yos in our reception class can't put on their coats or manage the climbing frame. Our children may be little, and I'm all for them enjoying their childhood, but they also need to claim some independence, preferably before they start school, or they just won't know what's hit them. What does anyone else think?

DS1 had only been walking four months (albeit with rests ) when DS2 was born (and he was still quite skittish and unsteady), so there's no way he'd have managed without a buggy at 21m.

Fair point hunker, there's no way dd1 could have gone out without sling or pushchair 4 months after starting walking. But at 21 months she was quite confident. So luck played a part in that too, not just our circumstances.

ITs hard to know what someones life is like without living it.
So another parent does all these things? Why would I or anyone else care?

After ds having a problem where I was judged to my face, by many, I hate this kind of thing.

What business is it of yours?

Haven't read the whole thread but when my dd1 was a baby i used to think people who still pushed their 4 yo around in a buggy were spoiling them. Once dd1 was bigger i realised;
1: sometimes you need to get somewhere fast/the child is tired.
2: low birth-rate in the country where i live means there is no younger sibling to take older child's place in buggy and force them to walk!
I hate to see kids over the age of 1.5 with dummies - much beloved in this country (Spain) but appreciate that some kids/parents find it hard to give them up, same goes for comfort blankets or finger sucking but they don't bother me so much for some reason (I think I still occasionaly sucked my thumb in my teens).
Every child develops at his or her own pace, but it's up to us to 'allow' them to learn to do things for themselves. It's easy to do everything for them, and quicker. How often have you fought with a child who is trying to do something 'myself'and then felt ridiculous for not letting them? What we want ultimately is for them to be independant, isnt it? I think (excessively)'babying' a child is a symptom of a parent who can't let go.

I used to get lots of looks when my son was in his buggy, but he was a very tall baby and toddler and did look a lot older, so don't be to quick to judge about older looking children in buggies.

But other than that FGS let the kids get on with it .

I don't think the OP is trying to be critical and nosey of other parents. She is trying to judge a social trend.

On the whole if we think back to our childhoods in the 70s/80s, or whenever and compare things as they were then- clearly, there is a trend of parents getting far more involved, and sometimes overinvolved, in the minutiae of their children's activities and also of perceiving them to be at risk from everything (i.e. walking on the pavement etc). There's also a lot less time for everything as several posters have pointed out.

I've got a thing about DS doing things for himself (he's 3.7) probably because he's a natural little emperor. I am the only parent I personally know round here whose 3 yo actually walks all the way to the shops and back (about a 10-15 min walk each way) and my friends are amazed that he can do it. (I do see other kids doing it but they all seem to have young siblings in the buggy, hence presumably being kicked out of it of necessity). DS is not a particularly 'good' or patient child, he just automatically walks now because I don't, ever, give him the option of the buggy (and at first, this was a nasty, time-eating battle). From the point of view of physical exercise and combating obesity or whatever, the trend against expecting toddlers to walk anywhere can't be good. However, as other posters have said, individual judgments can't be made as people's circumstances vary so much and time is such a strong factor.

yes, I read the OP the same way charlieq, ie it's not about those particular children but about a trend.

I think children nowadays are being brought up to be quite passive - not exactly the same thing as being inactive, although the 2 are linked I suppose.

They're not being allowed to work things out and be slow and clumsy and make mistakes, which I think is a pity.

Obviously there's a happy medium - little children need help with all sorts of things.

1= Buggies - a 4.5 year old (without any health issues) should be able to walk 10 minutes (for that matter should be able to run for 10 minutes). Mine would be made to walk at this age but I wouldn't think any less of somebody else who pushes their child in a buggy.

2= Craft activities - the child may well have been having a stroppy day and the mother gave up and helped him. DS1 often throws a little wobbly if he can't do something perfectly. In a public setting, I'd probably help him so that we could just enjoy the time, rather than get upset about it and ruin the day.

3= Reception class children are four years old. I cannot see any harm with a mum helping to hang up their coats, water bottle etc. I did it to give my son the sense that his mum was there with him and to help him grow in confidence in the school setting.

Whilst I agree it's important to foster a sense of independence, it's a rocky road travelled when we start expecting our babies to grow up before their time. I have learned this lesson the hard way. A child has plenty of time in the formal school setting (Y1 and beyond) to become adept at doing things for themselves. Before they turn five, they are just babies in my eyes.

So in answer to the OP - no I don't think we baby our children too much.

We get amazed looks when we are out half an hours walk from the nearest road on a tramp somewhere with a 3 year old in hiking boots. We always turn back after half an hour knowing that it will be another 40 minutes back to the car and there are hills.

But walking on a pavement isn't as interesting and the 3km walk to Kindy while well within his ability would be too much for everyday. Not to mention me having to walk 12 km to get there and back twice. Might try scooters though!

I think it's because today's parents care too much about what other parents are doing

nulnulcat I think ELC do left handed child scissors which might be useful to your DD. I have tried using scissors with the wrong hand and it is near impossible - no wonder she gets frustrated.

I still help mine in the mornings with their coat etc if they need a hand. It smoothes the way in if they're feeling a bit cranky or unsure and then we have a kiss goodbye.

I don't feel bad about that - actually I think we send our children into ft education too young really and expect too much from them.

It has never occurred to me that anyone would even consider judging someone for using a buggy! My dd is just turned 4, and I would say for the last 1 year at least she hasn't really used buggy but occasionally if she is sick or tired or I have to walk long distance on errand (time bound) I would use it (maybe once every two - three months). I didn't know it was or wasn't the 'done thing'!! Do agree that dc need to be allowed to be independent BUT surely they are all different and mature at different ages?

On the other hand I was sent the following the other day which probably sways the argument definitely towards more independence.

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE 1940's, 50's, 60's, 70's and very early 80's !!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us.
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a tin, and didn't get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, our baby cots were covered with bright coloured lead-based paints.
We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking .

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a van - loose - was always great fun.

We drank water from the garden hosepipe and NOT from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.

We ate cakes, white bread and real butter and drank pop with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......

WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem .

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no cell phones, no text messaging, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms..........WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents .

We played with worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

Made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not poke out any eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!

Local teams had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned

HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL!

And YOU are one of them!

CONGRATULATIONS!

You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good.

And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.

Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it?!

i dotn personally like to see older kiddies (4 up) in buggies but i dont judge, i just dont do it with my DD1 she is 22 months and we walk everywhere but only because she is happy to do it. she loves shoes and walking in them! thats where i am lucky but i do try to remember all kiddies are different and need there be a rush for them to grow up..they are only wee kiddies for so long. the rest of the OP i dont know about my dd1 is too young yet.

I used to put my dt's in their buggy when they were younger on some occasions if we were short on time.

Yes, they were quite capable of walking, but I have an older dd too - sometimes we'd be rushing to collect her and didn't have time to toodle along at the speed they liked to go at.

A neighbour of mine remarked to me once that they should be out and walking...

My ds is 2 (since end of Jan) but v. tall and looks alot older than his 2 year old friends - someone even thought he was 4. It does bother me that I get incredulous looks when he is in his buggy and I feel like screaming "He's only 2!!!" when people do so. On the other hand, I think that the fact that he looks older means I have also been more inclined to allow him a bit more freedom and require more of him from an independance point of view. Perhaps this is unfair of me too, but so far he has only embraced some aspects of this - trying to dress himself, putting his own shoes (no, not the laces!) etc. If he seemed insecure with it I think I would slow the pace down a bit. It is true that individual children are different, and this must always be taken into account. Still, I do think that sometimes we do under rate our kids abilities because it is easier to do everything faster ourselves than allow our children to do things at their own pace - problem with modern life maybe?

ooh gosh sorry I realise I have abandoned this thread a bit (internet not working at home).

Anyways, thanks for all yr thoughts. Interesting reading. HMC, please believe I am not a busybody judging you or anybody. Actually my example of helping reception class children off with their coats and placing water bottles etc was not a great one, I am prepared to admit. But still I plan to let DS2 put his own stuff away when he starts school in Sept. I'm not saying 3+ children in buggies is wrong - examples like yours (with the dog etc) make perfect sense. But yes, I do worry about children who at 4+ are pushed everywhere.

Yes, of course I don't know the circumstances. My examples were just that - examples. But there are many more and surely we have all seen them. I'm not suggesting the 4yo can't walk - but I wonder how well they would get on on a 20-minute walk if it's never asked of them? Re SN - yes, I know the child has no unseen medical condition. I'm also, as some posters (thanks) realised, not judging individuals, just worried about the effect it has in the mass. Harpsi, do you really not see any need for independence in a 4yo? Surely your 4yo puts on her own pyjamas/does her own drawing/feeds herself? Of course she does. Or I would imagine so....

This is a really big theme in our school actually, the progress the FS2 pupils have made since Sept is enormous, now they are at last allowed/forced to do stuff for themselves. But how much time would have been saved (for their teacher to erm, teach) if they had been allowed to zip themselves into their coats once in a while before now? This is the reason why I'm bothered about this - not cause I want to judge others (tho hands up who never does that) but because I would love for DS2's FS2 teacher to teach him to read and write, not be delayed by endlessly zipping up coats.

Oh I see Rantum has put it much more eloquently than me!