Are we babying our pre-schoolers and beyond? (rant alert)

[Clary]

This has been bugging me for a while. I actually agree with another poster about not introducing PS2 etc too early, but OTOH, what is going on here:

• Child at DS2's nursery school who is aged 4.5 (no SN) is regularly pushed the 10-min walk home in his buggy. Also know loads of 3yos who go everywhere by buggy, even short distances.

• At craft activity at museum, one child (aged maybe 3) sat there while mother did entire cutting and sticking activity for him. Another had done some fabulous cutting out. How old are you? I asked in alarm (much better effort that my DS1 could manage). I'm 7, is the reply, but my mum did the cutting out for me. Whaaaat?

• The reception class children in school are taken in to the classes by their parents - but I am always amazed by the mums who take off and hang up coats, take out water bottles, put snacks into snack tray etc. Can their lo not do this?

No wonder the 4.5yos in our reception class can't put on their coats or manage the climbing frame. Our children may be little, and I'm all for them enjoying their childhood, but they also need to claim some independence, preferably before they start school, or they just won't know what's hit them. What does anyone else think?

My DD was out of a buggy at 2. Its good for them to walk. I admit that sometimes it is inconvienant but I think in the long term it will be better for her. It also keeps me out of some of the shops I would usually browse through and she has saved me a bundle.

Long-term I doubt it would make much difference if she was still in it a 5. We live for an average of 70y does it really matter if they are in a pushchair for 2 more of those years (obviously not without any exercise at all).

I have to admit that I agree with the OP to a point. I really think that fostering a sense of accomplishment and independance and responsibility in children in Toddlerhood (even if it sometimes creates more hassle for the parents) is an important developmental step for all kids. And whilst I would not wish to judge individual parents for making decisions about their children, I think that it is valid to hold an opinion about these things. And it is a kind of a cop out to say "to each there own" because (especially at school!) the behaviour, expectations and abilities of other children and their families do impact on my children in both direct and indirect ways!

"I really think that fostering a sense of accomplishment and independance and responsibility in children in Toddlerhood (even if it sometimes creates more hassle for the parents) is an important developmental step for all kids."
Absolutely agree with this.
But without seeing the whole picture I don't see how someone can say this isn't happening in other areas.

And btw I do have a dog and appreciate that walking a dog and a Toddler is not really a very practical solution, so not commenting on you specifically handlemecarefully.

Got rid of buggy at 2.5
Ds would not be sat at a craft activity at a museum but off looking at stuff in the museum, but has learnt to use scissors.
At kindy I have to remind ds what to do, but he puts his own snack in the place and hangs up his own coat, puts his name on the board.

However I still help him wipe his bum, and I only have one child, so have got all the time in the world to wait for him to muddle through.

But you can NEVER see the whole picture of other peoples parenting, you only see the bits that impact you. And, btw I am not saying that I walk around saying, "well she's a bad mother because...". But I do think that (partly because of modern media hyping dangers out of all proportion) we live in a world where we are scared to let our children do things - walk around, run free, learn to help with housework and even dress themselves, because we see so many ordinary things as inherently risky. I simply wonder if this does our dc more harm than good???

Yes, in general I agree. It would be VERY tempting for me to put my ds in a buggy sometimes as he has dyspraxia and low muscle tone and dawdles to the extend he drives me BATTY. However, for a ten minute walk I won't use it, as I do think he needs the exercise. I would have had to do any cutting and sticking for ds at three because he couldn't use scissors at all and wouldn't have been interested in sticking - but then I probably wouldn't have been at the activity! I do sometimes take ds's coat off, but I don't really need to do it and yes, agree it is wildly excessive to do all that.

I only have a single buggy now and depending where we're going depends which boy goes in it.

Either DS1 (2.10) walks, which he's pretty good at and usually chooses to do (if I give him the choice ) or I stick him in the buggy and take DS2 (12m) in the sling.

All of you with children out of buggies by 2 or whatever - did you have a younger child to pay attention to as well?

DS was out of the buggy at about 2 3/4 precisely because the younger child was on the horizon, hunker! DD was born when he was 3.3 and I had him well clear of it by then. And he was fantastic at holding onto the pram. Not so good at letting go if we had to go through a narrow gap or whatever, mind you.

I am currently juggling whether to take a buggy to France in August when DD will be 3.3. We really shouldn't need it, should we?

21 months between ours and dd1 was out of the pushchair before dd2 was born.

BUT we live in the country and although we walk every day we can afford to amble, and the ground is rough so a pushchair is impractical. So for us it was easily the best option to train up dd1 to walk long distances, and we had plenty of opportunity to do so.

dd1's childminder on the other hand has 3 of her own and felt it was safer to take 2 year old dd1 out in the pushchair during school holidays, so that's what she did.

Same child, different circumstances.

So I would never comment on an individual child - but I agree with the OP's general point. I think we do underestimate what toddlers are capable of.

In the big scheme of things do the things that Clary rants about really matter? Prehaps she has too much time on her hands or needs to get a life.

My little man is becoming more and more independent every day. He does things when he is ready rather than when someone else feels he is ready. He is a school boy, but at 5 years and one month he is still young. I don't think that forcing children to be independent before they are ready makes them more independent. It just makes them clingy.

My son used a buggy until he was four years and two months, but he did have a child physio to help with walking problems until he was three and half. There is no way we could have managed without the buggy sooner.

frances5, telling Clary getting a life is really rude.

The question of how much independence to give children is big and important. We'll all have different ideas of course - which is right as children are all different - but it's a vital part of bringing up a child and I for one think this is a very interesting discussion.

frances5, telling Clary to get a life is really rude.

The question of how much independence to give children is big and important. We'll all have different ideas of course - which is right as children are all different - but it's a vital part of bringing up a child and I for one think this is a very interesting discussion.

oops

ds2 (aged 5) won't cut with scissors-- has a real thing about it (is left handed, not dyspraxic, but defintely cack handed), will not do it. Full blown tears, tantrums and sobs if I even suggest cutting something out. I figure its not worth it.

It depends on the child and the parents doesn't it? If someone saw Jimjams' DS2 not cutting out at an activity and thought 'tsk tsk' how does she know the circumstances that Jimjams describes. Being judgemental is what isn't fair on other parents. Having an opinion about what children can/can't do is OK ... but you just don't always know the circumstances.
For example ... DD (3 last week) still sleeps in a cot - terrible mother I am, babying her like that, aren't I?
But the thing is ... in May (when she was 2 and a bit) a new job came up for DH which means a big move. Oh well, we thought, we will put her in a bed when we move ... no point buying one here and then shifting it to Australia is there ... but the move, which was supposed to happen in September is now only happening in April ... DD will be 3.3 when she goes to a bed.
But people don't know these circumstances and I am not going to explain it to everyone I meet. None of their business.

DS, on the other hand, starts down the mines next week. He is 7.

I think it's obviously better for children to walk when they can, rather than use a buggy. When I was a nanny, I used to stop using pushchairs as soon as I possibly could, and just spend longer on the journey. However as a parent I find it is usually much more convenient for me to use the buggy, so I still sometimes do so. Ds is nearly 4, and probably looks older. I have seen people looking like this: when he is in the buggy.

When did you get back Franny?

Erm

I have put my nose in a few times lately and then this week I kind of sneaked in quietly when you were all talking about something else

Well good to see you back!

Thank you, it is good to be back

I think

agree with an earlier post about hidden health problems. dd is 3.3 and we occasionally use a buggy for even short journeys. she is epileptic and the attacks she has totally wipe her out and she doesnt have the energy to do anything.

she cannot use scissors at all she is left handed and just gets frustrated and ends up ripping things up throwing things in a tantrum so for a quiet life i do the cutting and she does the sticking

but i am guilty of taking over when it comes to painting / craft stuff. i love doing that kind of stuff myself and end up getting a bit carried away and sort of forget it was her activity not mine oops!!

I think it's all about time, really.

It's far quicker to do something for a child than hang around for them to do it themselves. It takes a huge amount of time to, for example get a small child to dress themself in the mornings, and time is exactly what you don't usually have as parent so you have to ration it out.

Maybe what the OP is describing is an effect of a society where we're so rushed off our feet and slaves of the clock that we can't afford to do things at toddler pace?