I'm NOT a Gina Mum, but for those of you who are ......

[susanmt]

Our new HV is HEAVILY into this. It reminded me of fp's posts about her friends coming to stay.
The thing which mums were really questioning at the playgroup today was that children should not be read bedtime stories as it is a 'prop' to help them go to sleep, there should be no singing or rocking or cuddling or stories once you go into the bedroom, just in the cot and 'night night'.
I read the book when my daughter was small then got rid of it, and was given a copy by a friend when my son was born, but managed to dispose of that one too as I don't like the advice/tone of it.
So two questions (I promised the other mums I would do some research and get back to them!!)

1. I this right about bedtimes? Surealy bedtime routines are a good thing?
2. Surely a HV should not be pushing one way of doing things so heavily - I think it is unprofessional and am wondering about complaining. Does anyone agree?

Off to read myself a bedtime story now .....

Hi, susanmt. I say well done, too.

I've only just come to this thread and have read some of the things about mixed feeding. I was NEVER told that this was an option. In addition my midwife wouldn't let me use nipple shields, feed EBM from a bottle or use anything but Purelan on my nipples, which I had to ger by mail-order, and for which she gave me the wrong phone number! With the general anaesthetic, dd being in intensive care and getting used to being tube-fed, her crying constantly and cracked nipples followed by mastisis, I don't really see how she expected me to do anything other than give up, (which I did and have regretted ever since). Being an insecure new mum I thought that her way was the only way. I've already posted on here about her parting shot to me, which was that I lacked courage.

Susanmt, perhaps I should take a leaf out of your book and tell someone.

ionesmum - yes, do tell. Think of other mothers who might be facing the exact same useless information and heavy-handedness, which you are still feeling the effects of.

You have the means to do something - maybe write a letter to the supervisor of midwives (your maternity unit will tell you where to send it, or ask at your community health council if they still exist) and send a copy to the GP at the clinic where the midwife is based. If they don't reply, phone them and remind them.

Hope you will do it!

Parent Rep - well done! I love it when people complain. We need more people like you. good luck with the group.

Thanks for the encouragement, tiktok. I have to do something. I had a dream last night that I was b/f dd, it was horrible when I woke up. I think perhaps I'm beginning to get a bit obsessive!

ionesmum - from reading other threads etc it sounds like you had quite a bad time. I definitely think you ought to take it further. You know you can always come on here for advice/support.

Thanks, Bozza. I'm having a bad day today, I thought that with time I'd feel better about not bf, but instead I seem to feel worse. Still, at least I have my beautiful little dd to make me smile. There are so many people with far worse things to cope with.

Don't put yourself down Ionesmum. This is obviously a big deal to you and I think you need some closure on the subject. Would chanelling your energies into making a complaint help you feel something positive had come out of your experience or would it just make it all worse, prolong the agony etc? Think about it, maybe discuss it with DH etc.

I'm glad that despite this you have managed to bond so well with your lovely DD.

I think Bozza is so right, Ionesmum. Yes, you DO have your dear little dd, and you clearly have bonded with her really well after such a scary start for you both, but what went wrong with b/f for you is clearly still a source of unresolved misery for you personally, and your feelings are tremendously important too. You can always chat to us on here but I also think it would be well worth your taking the matter further. You could talk to the Head of Midwifery Services at the hospital or whoever line-manages your midwives locally. Women whose babies are in SCBU/NICU need extra support to feed, not to be told they lack courage, and as a health professional that woman should be ashamed of herself.

Thanks, Bozza and Marina. I don't feel like I want to make an official complaint but I do want to let someone know in a less formal way, at least to start with. I'm thinking of speaking to one of the female g.p.s at our surgery about it. The team of midwives to which she is attatched have the U.N. standard for b/f advice, which is scarey.

I feel a bit pathetic for getting so upset about it TBH, but it's very hard not to pick up the message that 'one bottle of formula is poison'.

Thank you for your kind words about dd, she is such a sweetie and we have bonded very well. It's hard for me to discuss this with my dh. He's a wonderful man but he can't understand why I am so upset when things could have been so much worse.

You really helped me yesterday. Thanks again. I don't know where I'd be without mumsnet!

Ionesmum, I agree you need to reconcile yourself to what happened somehow, and talking to your GP about the MW/HV (can't remember which) might help. She was a horrible, insensitive person when you needed the exact opposite. I wish you well, and hope that the painful memories recede as you dd gets older. Before you know it both breastmilk and formula will be things of the past and maybe that might make it easier.

It's not pathetic at all Ionesmum. I still remember very clearly an impatient night-shift nursing assistant tell me I was starving my baby when I was having trouble getting a latch after a c-section and additional surgery. I could not get out of bed at the time and in front of me she cup fed him a whole cup of formula and said, I told you so. I did not complain about her, still wish I had, and know all too well that throwaway remarks can really hurt and that the sting can stay with you for a long time. Let us know how you get on with your GP, I hope she can give you some useful pointers about what to do next.

I'll let you know how I get on. Thank you all so much for the encouragement!

Go On Ionesmum!! If I can do it, so can you!!

Thank you! (I think that what you did was brilliant.)

God, what an evil b, Marina. How dare she do such a thing against your wishes?
The night agency staff can be absolute poison IME. I remember ringing for someone to pass me my babies to b/f when they were crying at night (I was hooked up to drips and bedbound) and a cow of cows swept impatiently in, announced that they weren't hungry and I shouldn't pick them up as they would become spoiled and swept out again. I lay there for some time listening to them cry and feeling utterly, utterly helpless and miserable. Luckily by the time I plucked up the courage to ring the bell again she'd gone off shift and her replacement couldn't have been nicer.

Yes they certainly can Scummy. On my one (thank God) night in hospital I rang for help cos dd had been sick (1st time mum, with NO experience of babies at all). The response was 'well are you breastfeeding ?' Yes 'Well you've obviously given her too much then haven't you' Er no, not obvious to me at all actually, they didn't seem to come with a 'full' gauge...

Ionesmum, do complain if you can face it. I couldn't at the time (or after other, worse, encounters with HV's) and now I get so angry with myself that I was so spineless - if I had maybe other new mums like you would have been treated with the compassion we all fondly imagine we will receive.

SusanMT good for you, as I say I wish I could have done what you did !

Marina, a midwife did the same thing to me in hospital. I was absolutely hysterical as they took dd off me and fed her formula (I did b/f for a couple of days). I now know that dd wanted to comfort-suck. In retrospect, perhaps that contributed to my giving up so easily.

I feel really sad that so many mums are treated so badly.

Twink, thanks for the encouragement.

Ionesmum,

I have been thinking about the bad experience you have had and thought of a possible positive way to deal with it.
You mentioned that the midwives are part of a baby friendly accredited team. That means that the staff must be trained in breastfeeding and carry out breastfeeding workshops for mothers and midwives. They will also have to attend problem solving workshops for midwives.
At our hospital mothers who are breastfeeding come to the breastfeeding workshops to talk to the other mothers and midwives who attend. It would be really beneficial for you to attend the problem solving workshop for the midwives to discuss with them your experiences of breastfeeding. There will be an infant feeding specialist at the hospital who runs these workshops. I am sure if you contacted her ( assuming it is a she) that she would be more than delighted to welcome you to discuss problems from the new mothers perspective.
This would allow you to offload the issues that have troubled you and inturn this would lead to better education of the midwives.
What do you think?

Ionesmum, I think that Mears (as always) has offered excellent advice. You obviously need to deal with this issue to help yourself come to terms with what happened, and if your actions prevent some other poor new mum going through what you did, then knowing that may help you a little too.

Don't be too hard on your dh - I don't think men can really get what breastfeeding can mean to a mum. At a time when things seemed very grim (b'feeding pain, colic and tiredness all contributing to depression), I felt that even though I was the worst mum in the world at least I was doing one thing for my poor deprived little baby. My dh saw how much pain I was in and suggested I start giving ds bottles - he couldn't understand how important this was to me at a fundamental level, all he could see was the practical side of stopping the pain and allowing me to get some sleep because he would be able to feed ds for me.

Hang in there - while you'll probably always feel sad about the breastfeeding, it won't make a difference to the relationship you'll have with Ione as she grows up. But I do think you should take Mears' advice if you can.

Thanks, mears. This is a good idea, the only problem being that I usually collapse in a heap whenever I talk about b/f (I have tears in my eyes now!) so I would find it hard. But I do want to make things better for other new mums, and so this might be the way to do it.

Azzie, my dh sounds very similar to yours. Eventually he had to feed dd as I was so ill, and she became less frustrated so he concluded that she was happier on bottles, as well as me being free from pain etc. It's just that now he thinks that I should have moved on and can't see why I'm still upset.

Thanks, Azzie for your encouragement about my relationship with my little one. TBH there were times when I was breastfeeding when I couldn't pick her up, I can remember one night being paralysed as she cried in her cot, I couldn't bear to go near her and had to get dh. Now we are very close (dh says that hew has to remind me to let him near her!) so our bonding hasn't been a problem, thank goodness.

Oh, I do thank you all so much, it's a huge relief to come here and get these things out, and receive so much encouragement in reurn.

I also had a bad experience with a particular midwife the night my son was born. At about 5 or 6 hours old I was trying to breastfeed him and having no luck at all, he just wasnt interested. I remember sitting in the nursery area off the main ward, sweating like mad (god those places are hot!) and being virtually ignored by the staff. Eventually when I was close to tears my son was taken off me by one of the healthcare assistants who said she would have to give him some formula. I burst into tears at this point, arguing that I didn't want him to have formula and wanted to keep trying. She fetched a midwife who said I could try expressing and if this didn't work (which seemed to be the assumption) then she would have to give formula. I know now that my son could have been left a whole lot longer without coming to any harm whatsoever. The midwife brought an avent pump, which she had been struggling to put together, and even though I told her there was no suction, she would neither listen to me or let me operate the pump myself. She gave 5 or 6 'pumps' and then said it wasn't working - I KNEW it wasn't working, there was no suction! By now I was crying hysterically, getting no comfort from the midwife or assistant and being told that my son was suffering due to me refusing formula. In the end I gave in when she conceded that he could have it from a cup rather than a bottle. I noticed she was very careful to write on my notes that the formula had been given with my permission - no mention of emotional blackmail. The following day, when breastfeeding was still going badly as he was still uninterested, a different healthcare assistant suggested expressing again. This time she fixed me up with the electric pump, explained that it could take some time and not to be concerned if we only got a tiny amount as this was entirely normal. After about 40 mins we got a few mls of colustrum which I was incredibly proud of! The difference in the care given was enormous and I cannot forgive the midwife for treating me like that. I thought midwives were there for me as well as my baby, to enourage, advise, reassure and comfort - not to browbeat a new, nervous, insecure mother who had had only 6 hours sleep the previous 60 hours period. I have to say that the rest of the care received was ok, but I feel upset now just thinking about that night

ionesmum, slap me down if this is a bad idea or one you have already thoght of and rejected, or, in fact, if you are already doing it! - but there is no reason why you can't put your baby to the breast, whether she latches on or not. Just having her there, cuddled in to you skin to skin, might calm her when she is a bit agitated, and will feel nice for you. If she does latch on, then that's ok, as well.

It is so sad for you to feel you wanted so badly to bf and to still feel distressed by it. Close, loving skin to skin cuddles might help.

MBB, I so know that feeling. Sorry you've been there too.

Tiktok, what you say is lovely. I do let dd nuzzle against me, and most of the time I sleep naked so dd gets lots of skin-toskin contact, in fact if she is very unsettled she sleeps on my chest. I do try to make our feeding sessions as close as possible by cuddling dd, singing etc. It's not the same, but the best that I can do.