MMR

[sandcat]

My friends 11mth old has just got measles from we think nursery. My 4mth old was exposed and another 4wk old. After talking to an immunologist I discovered that the two younger babies would be ok, but how does somebodies lack of common sense by not immunising their child take away the option of your child contracting measles. My friends and I are all experienced A&E nurses and think it is about time the goverment stated that research has been done, and there is no link between the MMR triple vaccine and autism. What do you think. And how many parents opted out of the vaccine because they had heard what other people said, or did the most sensible thing and researched it with professionals.

I thought the govt had already stated that.
I followed national health advice and immumnised my dd.

I did the most sensible thing and researched it and still decided to go with singles.
It is surely down to each Parent what they feel is right for their child, it's not that we're given a choice anyway.
Glad that your baby is o.k but i don't think people just 'beleive' the goverment anyway!

Do you know that it was caught from an unimmunised child?

Errr... but there will always be children who can't have the vax for some reason, or who it doesn't take for (speaking as someone who has had hep B vax several times now, and is still not immune). It isn't foolproof even if everyone had it.

I agree with having the single doses if you really feel you need to, but some parents haven't immunised at all. It takes a certain percentage of non compliance with a vaccine, then the disease will spread whether children are getting vaccinated again or not. That is the thing that some people do not understand and this is what the government should be telling people. This is how diseases that have been irradicated for so long retuen. Measles is rife now in London.

My dd had measles despite being fully immunised - other children may have caught it from her, and it may well have been the case that your friend's baby caught it from someone who was immunised, like my dd.

Some people here researched the MMR very thoroughly before deciding not to immunise; it's rather rude of you to presume that parents who chose not to immunise don't research their decision, and didn't do the "sensible thing".

There are parents on this website - well-liked and well-respected posters - with vaccine-damaged children who may have something to say about the tone of your post.

I felt the same about the tone. I am still very wary of MMR due to having heard so many first hand experiences both good and bad, and no amount of HVs or doctors can change that.

Thanks for your comment. Didn't mean to come accross as rude, but just angry about the whole MMR thing. More angry with the government for their lack of backbone in telling everybody that there is no lonk between Triple Dose MMR and Autism.

I thought the government medical officer's advice was pretty clear re the MMR.

Dh got measles in 1980. But he never had MMR b/c it wasn't in the UK then.

There was all this mumps in his work and we had to move mountains to get him an MMR.

I mean, WTF? So they'd rather an adult fall ill w/one of these diseases then offer them a cheap ass vaccination?

13 students in my department got it this spring, and it must have cost the NHS a fortune b/c half of those got nasty secondary infections like tonsilitis.

DD1 had her MMR at 15 months. She's now 3, and I want her to have her boosters at 3years + 4 months b/c DD2 is too young for MMR and DD1 is off to nursery, b/c so many aren't immunised these days and I don't want the kids to fall ill.

Also glad to see she'll be offered the Pnuemovax.

Oh Sandcat, I think you may be a new poster on here, but if you take the trouble to do some research, my dear, you will find Many many threads where this issue has been discussed, over and over.

Quite a lot of Mumsnetters agree with your opinion on this. Some of us are more wary, for their own reasons.

I think there are still also a few scientists who would agree that we can't be 100% certain that children won't be harmed by MMR (just as most children wont be permanently damaged by exposure to measles).

And I think there would be less non-vaccination if the govt. allowed us all to choose between triple or single, rather than making it difficult for those of us who want single to get them.

The government does say that MMR should be given but they don't advise stongly enough about the lack of evidence.I am again sorry to the guys I offended with my comment but just feel very strongly about this. I work in an A&E dept in London and more and more children are becoming ill with measles and I think for a disease that was nearly unheard of, it is a shame that we now hear so much about it.

If you're gonna offer infant jabs, offer the bloody boosters to the young adults/teens!

I did lots of research and went with the single vac's option with dd (now 4) but ds is approaching 2 and havnet done anything as yet as still undecided! not good i know as IMO I think unless there is a specific reason then its better to vaccinate than not to but unless someone can categorically state that there is no link then Im still wary and the government, again IMO, seem very lacklusture about saying this which in my mind raises suspicions ! or maybe thats just the way my mind works

Im not an expert (at anything ) but those children who were immunised who then went on to get measles anyway - wasnt it the measles part of the MMR that causes the problem ?
and if they got measles anyway would that not reinforce single vaccines to make sure each has more chance to work?

I have never had the measles injection as I had an allergic reaction when I was a baby and even now am not allowed.
My 3 eldest children have all had the mmr vaccine.
I did a lot of soul searching and research and decided that I still couldn't be sure but that, for me the triple jab was the best option.
Dh said that a child with autism/other problems is better than having to mourn a child that has died from measles! True I feel. I do genuinely think that a lot of people have forgotten how serious these diseases can be.
What put me off the single vaccine route was that the same strains of the disesases are not used, and also that it is thought that the problems arise from the germs lying in the gut and I was told that unless you gave the vaccines at least 9 months- 1 year apart then they remained in the system and that you may as well just give them all together anyway! Also there is a chance that your child may get 1 of the diseases in the mean time.
I also think it would be good if pre-school age children could have some kind of test to see if they need a booster vaccine, as I have been told that this is not always necessary in some cases.
This is a real toughie and in the end it has to be about personal choice.
After all it's you that has to live with it!
Sorry this was so long!

I do agree with comments that the tone of the OP is a bit harsh, but it can be easy to come across wrongly if youa re cross.

I think there is a point here about children in a shared care environment such as nursery. I personally believe that there is a need for nurseries to be more rigorous about vaccinations. I spent 6 months with DS at nursery, too young to have the vaccine, terrified of there being an outbreak. A friend's DD caught measles the day befire her appt. to have the MMr as did 8 other children at the nursery. It came from an unvaccinated child.

I appreciate that the decision to vaccinate your child or not is personal, however if you are intending on them being in shared care from a yung age, I do think you have a responsibility to other parents too.

Totally agree with Melrose.

Having been in exactly the same situation as you 4yrs ago(ds caught measles from non vac child at Nursery) my reaction was irritation at the Gov for not giving the choice of singles. My DS hadn't had the vac as he is seriously allergic to egg and a host of other things including DPT. If this Mum had had the choice then my vulnerable DS would not have been exposed.

I havent immunsed ds2 or ds3 at all. Ds1 is severely brain damaged-we believe partly from vaccinations. Not going there again - or at least not taking the risk of a vaccination without very good reason.

DS caught rubella- from a vaccinated child.

We have thoroughly researched the issue, and believe we have made the best decision for our family.

"Dh said that a child with autism/other problems is better than having to mourn a child that has died from measles! True I feel."

yes I agree, I am pleased my son is alive. But severe autism hass robbed him of his life. A 7 year old who will never talk, never live independently, cannot go to the cinema, to a shop (without 2 adults), to a theme park in the summer, cannot go on holiday, cannot go to the beach unless its raining. That is our reality of autism at the moment and tbh whilst I might be pleased he's not dead I'm not pleased about much else. By not vaccinating ds2 or ds3 I don't assume they are going to die, I am simply trying to give them the best chance to live an independent adult life. Which ds1 will not do. 24 hour care for the rest of your life- 24 hours a day someone else deciding when you want to eat/drink/ go out. That's not much fun.

I agree wih expat as well. if you work on ensuring that adults are protected then very few babies under a year old will be susceptible. Then you can immunise your 13 months as they do now (although personally I think they'd be better waiting until 15 months) and can choose., if you want to. And people like me won't be given grief for not wanting severe autism again.

I agree wih expat as well. if you work on ensuring that adults are protected then very few babies under a year old will be susceptible. Then you can immunise your 13 months as they do now (although personally I think they'd be better waiting until 15 months) and can choose., if you want to. And people like me won't be given grief for not wanting severe autism again.

jimjams i really feel for your situation, and am really sorry if I made it seem too simplistic.
Obviously I have no idea what you are living with. I was a one - to - one helper with an autistic child at school, so have some grasp on the way things may be for you, however this was obviously not 24/7 and as I said before I do really feel for you.
sorry if I caused any offence. None meant.

None taken at all- just wanted to point out it isn't black and white. Also autism is a vast spectrum- many people with autism can lead productive (athough often very difficult) lives, but my son won't- he really is very disabled by his condition- there is so much he can't do.

We don't think MMR was a factor in his case, although we suspect the thimerosal that was then present in the DTPs' played a role. In the case of his brothers we avoid - where possible- any potential trigger (especially for ds3 who shares certain physiological charateristics with people with autism). So for example we would give antibiotics (ds2 has had a course) but only when absolutely sure its necessary. the same with vaccinations. I would like to give tetanus but can';t get a single jab, so that will have to wait until they're old enough to have a single, and if they don't catch measles in childhood they will have a single jab.

Incidentally my belief is that the MMR has been responsible for triggering autism in approx 7% ish of cases (from latest research). A very small number of children, I don't believe its a big problem, and is certainly safe for the vast majority. WOuld be nice to see some work into who is susceptible. We know that our children's risk of autism is over 100 times higher than Jo Publics, so we are very careful.

Obviously most people don't find themseleves in our postion and so might have an easier decision. I do take the role of being aware of potential illnesses seriously, and whenever the children have suspicious symptoms check for kopliks spots and would obviously avoid vulnerable groups including babies. We may therefore be safe than someone who assumes their child can't have measles because they've been vaxed (whish was how they caught rubella).

Here we go again. I personally am not convinced that enough research has been done into the effects of vaccines on children. Especially these large 6/7 in one vaccinations. Jimjams2 it must be so difficult for you. My personal choice was for single vaccines and i would do the same again and again. Nothing will convince that I made the wrong decision there. Vaccinations do not give you lifelong immunity and many people seem to forget that. I am another one who was vaccinated against rubella at 15, but still caught rubella and although it supposedly gave lifelong, when tested during first pregnancy found to have no antibodies. Was lucky enough to get single rubella vaccine just after birth of ds1. Now in Scotland they give mmr to mothers.