MMR

[sandcat]

My friends 11mth old has just got measles from we think nursery. My 4mth old was exposed and another 4wk old. After talking to an immunologist I discovered that the two younger babies would be ok, but how does somebodies lack of common sense by not immunising their child take away the option of your child contracting measles. My friends and I are all experienced A&E nurses and think it is about time the goverment stated that research has been done, and there is no link between the MMR triple vaccine and autism. What do you think. And how many parents opted out of the vaccine because they had heard what other people said, or did the most sensible thing and researched it with professionals.

Ladidah, I see your point, but on the flipside- what if I did give her the MMR and it triggered Autism or one of the other terrible health complications that can occur from vaccinations? It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation isn't it? I'd almost rather that anything that happened didn't happen as the result of my actions rather than inactions, but it's still a hell of a dilemma.

oh god yes vitomum- absolutely the problem. People who are more susceptible to the disease will be more susceptible to the vaccination and vice versa. One suggesiton for autistic children reacting badly to measles is because a subgroup appear to have problems with vitamin A processing, which will make them more at risk from damage from the vax or the disease.

In terms of autism though of course, by leaving it outside the time of critical brain development then you'll decrease your risk (assuming you don't catch the disease). If we lived in an area where measles was very common then I could (weirdly) decide the opposite that the high risk of catching measles made it safer to give a single measles jab preceeded by a dosing up with vitamin A.

spidermama, thanks for the links. i've been away for a few days, or would have replied sooner.

and thanks in general for an informed debate. finally beginning to feel like i have enough info to make an reasonable decision.

thanks Jimjams. I've been reading up today on difference between live / non live viruses so that is all starting to make sense. Still have a load of other things to get my head round though. Thanks again for your help.

Jimjams adivce it totally misleading. Deaths caused by measles are not just to vulnerable groups. Roald Dahls daughter died from measles encephalitis and was very healthy before hand.He wrote a very moving piece in support of measles vaccination.

Roald Dahl's daughter died in 1962. If you read my 10 August, 2006 11:13:04 PM you will see I make the point of saying that in recent years deaths have been confined to vulnerable groups.

Which is why I also said later on to get a realistic idea of the mortality rate you need to look at a time when measles was common (such as 1962) when the death rate was low.

I am not trying to persuade anyone not to vaccinate their child, simply explaining why we, as a family with a vaccine damaged child, choose not to vaccinate ds2 and ds3 and why we would prefer not to be called selfish because of it.

here we go sophable first measles death in the UK in 14 years in a boy with underlying condition.

I'm not sure it tells you that much though as so few people get measles these days. Better off looking at the death rate before the introduction of vaccination.

Measles vaccination was apparently introduced in 1968, so a few figures

1962 39
1963 166
1964 73
1965 115
1966 80
1967 99
1968 51
1969 36
1970 42
1971 28
1972 29
1973 33
1974 20
1975 16
1976 14
1977 23
1978 20
1979 6

For comparison in 1901 there were over 9000 measles deaths. It slowly decreased into the 100's during the 1940's (introduction of antibiotics to treat complications??) The moved into fluctuations between 30ish to 100ish in the mid(ish) 1950's until vaccination when it decreased to the rates above.

I suspect the figures are representing the importance of good nutrition and the ability to treat complications.

bit here on retinol treatment The research has only demonstrated a benefit in those with vitamin A deficiencies (so say a useful treatment in the dveloping world). However early stuff, but some autistic kids seem to do weird things with retinol and I have seen it suggested that that this may contribute to this persisitant measles infection that some seem to get. bit more here that explains the difference between persistent measles infections/acute etc and using vitamin A . AFAIK the benefits recorded in this sort of treatment have been behavioural, parent recorded (on vitamin A for example ds1 stopped doing all his weird sideways eyes stuff), not double blind, not looking a virus titres and not controlled.

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Tyedye i also discovered recently that the 'live' polio was replaced with the non live vresion in the USA in 2000. The reason for this was the 10 cases per year where children caught polio from the live vaccine. Obviously a tiny ammount compared to the numbers that got the vaccine but not much consolation if you were one of the 10 per year. The live version was only replaced in the UK in 2004 when they brought in the new 5 in 1! Probably delaying the replacement of the live vaccine is something most parents would not have chosen but the powers that be have different considerations when they make their decisions.

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JimJams2 - Sorry to hijack thread - very interested about the part of auto-immune disease running in your family. Our son has just been diagnosed with autism and this is a possible link in our family. Would you be able to email me for a quick chat - Many thanks, Nikki.
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