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Parenting

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Original poster

Working class parents don't know how to raise children!

156 replies

speedymama · 31/07/2006 15:38

A long time friend of mine is married to an Australian. They are visiting friends and family in the UK with their 2 children. I have met the wife before when we visited Sydney so I'm accustomed to her blunt declarations but this time I really had to control myself.

They were staying overnight at our house and she said that she loved watching Supernanny. She then said that working class people have no idea about raising children and they were the reason why society was breaking down. I was completely poleaxed by that comment and did not respond. DH and I are both from poor working class backgrounds but her father is a millionaire and her DH, who I met at university, is very middle class. She then repeated the comment again later on and DH & I held our tongues for the sake of harmony. I wanted to point out that parenting is not a class issue etc but I know that this would have led to a heated argument (she is very strident when it comes to arguing her point) and I did not want to create an atmosphere, especially as there were 4 children under the age of 3 in my house. I was so relieved when they left the following morning.

What would you have done?

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alligator · 03/08/2006 09:32

But surely this all depends on what we consider 'working' or 'middle' class to be doesnt it? I am considered middle class cos I work in an office and have a degree but by the time we've paid all the bills we have sweet fa left so we'll be doing that trip to the seaside by train that colditz described ON SATURDAY. I'm gonna have nightmares tonight after your description thanks .

FioFio · 03/08/2006 09:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

kittywits · 03/08/2006 09:48

Your point is a valid one Colditz but then it's not about class it's about money and social deprevation. I know somw working classes who are extremely well off.

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mumfor1standfinaltime · 03/08/2006 09:49

Custardo -

I have had to claim dole money before when I lost my job. And even though I have been working since I was 16, The govt would not pay me a penny - I was supposed to live from dh's wages. I felt like I didn't exist! The 'wonderful system' we have in this country is not so wonderful, I was told by the job centre to have a baby, then I can claim!
I was unemployed for only 3 weeks and that is the only time I have ever been unemployed. The benefit system is for those in real need - ie the disabled, elderly. I firmly believe that if you can work you should work, however small a job you have.
Recently my dad was made redundant, he has worked since he was 15 years of age, he is now 58. He can not claim a penny in benefits because of his small redundancy pay out! He has to live on that. Even though my mum has a failing liver and can not work. Hmm wonderful system. He cant find a job very easily because of his age and because he is not an educated man.

As for the 'chav' label, this is not just classed on looks (cant really say how wearing a track suit has anything to do with it!) Where I live it also means a sponger, a dole scrounger. Someone with no respect for themselves, others or the country they live in. (also known as trisha trash)

I have lived in social housing all my life - not through choice. At the moment I am trapped by society, I can not buy my own home as I cannnot afford to buy a home in my area - I would have to move from where I have grown up to buy a home, which I refuse to do.

In my eyes it is that simple -

Working person - working class

chav - someone who sponges and feels like the country should pay for them.

batters · 03/08/2006 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mumfor1standfinaltime · 03/08/2006 09:54

alligator - dh works in an office and he certainly isn't middle class lol!!

A friend of mine has a degree and she is doing the same job as me and I don't have a degree - so which of us is working class?

Firefox · 03/08/2006 09:55

Did your friend know about your background and your DH's background? If not, I would have been tempted to ask her if that is what she thinks of you - ie embarrassed her.

I find some people make sweeping generalisations like this. My mum is one of the worse offenders. The trouble is she has no idea that she ends up annoying and upsetting people by these comments as often people are too polite to say anything back. However, I don't think it would stop the sweeping generalisations - some people are prone to being so judgemental without realising or even caring. I just choose to avoid them.

kittywits · 03/08/2006 09:56

So would you say that all mIddle classes are in fact working classes? Isn't it to do with attitudes and expectations, not simply whether you work or not! The Queen works and so does tony Blair etc (well that's a matter of opinion).
Are the working classes who don't work for whatever reason no longer working class?

mumfor1standfinaltime · 03/08/2006 10:00

It seems that people think that if you do a job that doesn't require qualifications -you are working class. But if you are say a doctor you are middle class. Why is this?

Basically 'middle class' is getting more money in your wage packet.

colditz · 03/08/2006 10:01

Valid point Kittywits, but I don't know any middle class people who are extremely poor and socially/educationally deprived. And the majority of working class people are poorer than the majority of middle class people, I think, although I have never seen evidence on paper of this.

mumfor1standfinaltime · 03/08/2006 10:04

My cousin is from a working class background and from social housing.
He started his own business as a builder from scratch. He is now a property developer and earns millions from buying old run down properties. So working class people can have money.

colditz · 03/08/2006 10:06

They can indeed, as can middle class people be very poor. However, these cases are the exceptions IMO. Eg, most working class people are not richer than most middle class people.

HappyDaddy · 03/08/2006 10:06

I'd have told her that her comments were rich coming from a descendant of convicts.

But I'm nasty like that .

kittywits · 03/08/2006 10:06

Class definition is such a complicated thing. Yes it has a lot to do with money and qualifications. There are of course many exceptions to the rule. To my mind it is much more to do with up bringing, views on behaviour, standards, expections of life, attitudes to child rearing etc, than it has to do with money.

Colditz it is very tue that the middle classes are better off financially than the working classes.

Wordsmith · 03/08/2006 10:06

Speedymama, of course your 'friend''s comments were outrageous, but...

What the hell does working class mean? I always have a problem with terms such as working class and middle class. I can understand that perhaps they meant something in the 1930's, but today?? I suppose I am working class because I work, right? But my mum was a teacher and I have a degree, so does that make me middle class? I guess so. So if I'm middle class, then I can afford all the things 'middle class' people can and I have a people carrier? er... no, that so-called 'working class' family down the street driver a newer car and have flashier holidays than me... so maybe they're middle class? I send my youngest child to nursery whwre he's looked after by 'working class' nursery nurses - like the one who went to the big private school up the road and did a drama degree, right?

The 'class system' is one of my Room 101 subjects. I hate the way people define themselves by it, because it's just an excuse for snobbishness. Someone earlier on said they would hate to be called middle class and were proud to be working class - why??? what does it mean? I can understand feeling an affinity with your background and appreciating the struggles or otherwise of your parents' generation (which goes for people whose parents are 'middle class' as well) but how can you be proud of something you had no input into? be proud of what you do with your life, not what generations before you did!

As for who makes better parents - well that depends on lots of things but I cannot for the life of me see how 'class', whatever that means, has anything to do with it at all.

HappyDaddy · 03/08/2006 10:08

I remember from my Sociology A level that technically there is NO middle class.

Those who work for a living are working class, no matter how much they earn.

Those who come from old money and have no need of a "job" are upper / ruling class.

mumfor1standfinaltime · 03/08/2006 10:09

Now off to the supermarket and have to walk as being working class I can't afford to run 2 cars (and dh has the car today)on my part time earnings in my humble employment!lol!

kittywits · 03/08/2006 10:09

Wordsmith I have always understood that the middle class was divided into three sections. upper, middle and lower. This seems to be linked soley to the amount of money you have.

mumfor1standfinaltime · 03/08/2006 10:10

Just as I was saying happydaddy - and I don't have any A levels! lol!

Wordsmith · 03/08/2006 10:11

God Kittywits I must be lower than low at the moment then - but in years gone by I was probably 'upper' - so what am I really?

kittywits · 03/08/2006 10:11

I think you are whatever you think you are!!

kittywits · 03/08/2006 10:13

If you determine class by more than how much money you have then you can be middle class and not that well off or working class and stinking rich.

colditz · 03/08/2006 10:13

I personally, privately, define class like this. I expect to be ripped to shreds for it as I have no justification for the following comments.

Working class people Are paid by the hour, usually. They are educated to GCSE standard, but may have done a lot of vocational training. They don't earn very much, as a rule. They live in social housing,have no or one cheap car, and shop at Iceland, Asda or the closest. They drink beer and spirits.

Middle class people wear smart clothes to work, as they can reasonabley expect to stay clean there. They have a higher income, are saleried and have at least some A levels. They are usually in charge of someone else. They own a house, but this may be in a varying state of repair, and the same applies to the cars they own. They shop more at real shops, buy slightly dearer food, and they all drink wine

kittywits · 03/08/2006 10:18

sounds ok to me!

HappyDaddy · 03/08/2006 10:21

colditz, a bit old fashioned and simplistic i think. Take two brothers, neither with anymore than GCSE education. One works as a builder and one works in the City in IT. Both earn over £35k per year. Are they different classes?

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