Working class parents don't know how to raise children!

[speedymama]

A long time friend of mine is married to an Australian. They are visiting friends and family in the UK with their 2 children. I have met the wife before when we visited Sydney so I'm accustomed to her blunt declarations but this time I really had to control myself.

They were staying overnight at our house and she said that she loved watching Supernanny. She then said that working class people have no idea about raising children and they were the reason why society was breaking down. I was completely poleaxed by that comment and did not respond. DH and I are both from poor working class backgrounds but her father is a millionaire and her DH, who I met at university, is very middle class. She then repeated the comment again later on and DH & I held our tongues for the sake of harmony. I wanted to point out that parenting is not a class issue etc but I know that this would have led to a heated argument (she is very strident when it comes to arguing her point) and I did not want to create an atmosphere, especially as there were 4 children under the age of 3 in my house. I was so relieved when they left the following morning.

What would you have done?

lets hope she's not raising her children to be as narrow minded

my DH grew up in a township in Zimbabwe - but he has better manners than many people I know (including myself )

I bet if the girl in the Felsted incident was from a working class area like Dagenham, they would have made her stand trial.

Do they lives/is an australia i think that what your op reads if so were'nt they all criminals??
And from 2 different sets of friends their education is way behind ours anyway.

I'm really surprised you didn't say anything spidermama. You are usually really good at slapping down judgemental mumsnetters when they make their sweeping generalisations. When I see one of those threads I usually think "spidermama will be along in a mo to put them back in their box".

Lems, she is Australian, good point about her origins, had not thought of that one!

Piglit, I'm speedymama, not spidermama

Piglit the OP was speedymama this time

(had to go back and check for myself, I was confused too)

I am not sure what I would have done in this situation. If someone is staying with you and you are physically unable to get away from each other it is probably best not to have an enormous scalding row. However it rankles so much to leave this sort of hideous prejudice unchallenged, doesn't it?

Sorry guys. Having a really dumb day. Even dumber than usual......

That was my problem Franny, they were staying overnight and I just kept telling myself that they would be gone in the morning.

If you feel it will bug you when you meet get clued up facts and figures and put her in her place a structured debate of course and she will have to retrack her statement [smug emoticon]

I think it makes it extra hard when people are guests in your home or vice versa. I have left people's houses in similar situations but someone would have to say something really pretty unforgivable for me to ask them to leave my own house when they needed my hospitality.

Rude woman, and how awful to have such a firm handprint in the middle of each child´s back. Ugh. I think you did the right thing for the sake of your friend, but if it were me I might ask them to stay in a hotel next time!!!

LOL at "brainy baby" programme starting at 3 months. I wonder what is the first lesson?

I hate so much the 'working class' label. I am working class, as are my entire family! We are 'working class' because, guess what, we work for a living!!!! (Strange Idea I know)

People who sponge and sit on their bum and who do not pay a penny at all into the state are a 'chav' or a 'waste of tax payers money' or 'a waste of space' in my book. These type of people do not work (unless its cash in hand) so therefore are not 'working class'.

People who sponge usually have trouble raising their 'special' children - who usually when grown up, turn to crime and guess what - the working class pay to keep them either in prison or in a bedsit on housing benefit.

hope for the baby's sake the programme teaches manners cos his mum sure won't!

"hate so much the 'working class' label. I am working class, as are my entire family! We are 'working class' because, guess what, we work for a living!!!! (Strange Idea I know) "

there are lots of definitions of class - to say that you are working is too simplistic. the priminister works but i wouldnt say he is working class. a university lecturere works - again not working class

or are they? if they had WC parents maybe they term themselves working class - however you see my point. its too simplistic your view and the definitions and terminology are many and varied

"People who sponge and sit on their bum and who do not pay a penny at all into the state are a 'chav' or a 'waste of tax payers money' or 'a waste of space' in my book. These type of people do not work (unless its cash in hand) so therefore are not 'working class'. "

ahhh the pararaph that prompted me to post my predicable sermon. CHav i think and i am not the only one - is a derogatory term - used to lable a section of society - in this case - on looks.

the origins of the word are debatable however where i come from its "Council House And Violent" which forms this acronym. obviously to term everyone in social housing as violent and spongers and benefit claiming scum is wrong as i am sure you would agree - to lable somone such becuase they wear a tracksuit is ridiculous.. My son dresses as a "townie" he works hard for a living. his mother is a "greaser rocker" his father is a "maiden head" his borther is a "sk8terBOI" his sister is an EMO. all defined on nothing more than music i think you will find.

no people on benefits are not working class they are the underclass. usually with a life fucked up by parents, no cash, drugs, no hope, no ambition, no education, violence, and not a lot of support.

or they once were working and fell on hard times becuase the govt fucked up the economy.
or they got divorced, partner died, children, partner ,self disabled in some way, fled worn torn country.. there are many reasons why someoe claims.

our question should be - how can we help as a socie - and a bigger question - for those who cheat the system - and we know there are those that do am not all liberal pinko shyte here - why are they content? why do they not want more for themselves and their children - THIS my friends is the real question.

People who sponge usually have trouble raising their 'special' children - who usually when grown up, turn to crime and guess what - the working class pay to keep them either in prison or in a bedsit on housing benefit.

deary deary me - i hope and wish you are never in a situation where you need the safety net of the wonderful system we have in this country.

they do not usually have trouble raising their children - they usually raise thie chilren inc loser communities and do what has to be done to get b becuase benefits dont pay much contrart to tory opion. usually creating stronger friendships, social relationships, comminities than anywhere else i have EVER experienced.

I also from a working class background. I have a masters degree now and married a middle-class man. I miss the spontaneity and fun of the working class life and people.
Any "middle class" person who makes such kind of comments is uncultured, or for want of a better phrase "a bit thick". Your class is no measure of your intelligence or common sense. Middle class families are just as able to f**ck their kids up as working class families, possibly more so.
In short, I wouldnt have bothered mentioning anything. Its like people who make racist comments or something- if someone cant work out for themselves why its wrong, or if they don`t have the brain power to see how bigoted they sound, then there is really no point in mentioning it. They are just embarrassing themselves.

Also, I live in Japan now, and its so interesting that the class divide is alive and kicking in the UK, but has basically died out in most other societies (or never existed really, like in the US or AUS). Its not really an issue here any more in Japan, but if I meet a British person here, I`ll a lot about their class background by their accent (and they can know mine too). I think its just one of those interesting idiosyncrasies that makes the UK what it is. Middle class people who view themselves as "better" may have some kind of chip on their shoulder

That journalist who has children that bore her to death isn't working class and she seems to have no idea at all, which she blames on going to university. So it's not a class thing at all.

Everything being someone else's fault doesn't seem to be a class thing either.

You could have said something equally prejudiced and ridiculous back and left it at that!

Eg "well I don't agree but it's never worth arguing with the Australian Middle Classes - they've all had such sheltered lives and are so self-satisfied." Then a big wink? And turn it into a giggle?

I wouldn't know about Aus, but the class system is live and kicking in America. Verrrrry much so. As in: Trailer trash, WASPs, rednecks, hicks, 'the Cabots talk to God', etc. Perhaps it's a bit easier to move up and down the scale, depending on how much money you've got, but not that much easier.

FWIW, an Iranian friend of mine can tell what background other Iranians have just from the way they speak. I suspect that every country has its own class system.

How strange. Obviously the class system is alive and kicking in England too, although the edges between the classes are often blurred and there are many debates as to what constitues being a member of a different class. I hate those people who try to be so right on and say that there is no such thing as class or racisim for that matter .
( yes I've met a few of those)

You cannot make sweeping statements about one class being better than another for raising their children. Each one has its own ideologies that's for certain. But really.... I've seen so many people from, "working" and "middle" classes who have been what I consider to be excellent parents and equally I've seen pretty atrocious parenting examples from both too. Don't have much experience of upper classes as I am not that posh and mix in the wrong circles obviously.

Working class is also no longer about whether you work anymore, used to be of course. Now it's about an approach to life and your type of up bringing and ideologies. As I said before the edged are blurred somewhat, but everyone knows which class they consider themselves a member of.

DH and I were discussing another one of their views but what shocked me was that my friend totally agreed with this wife. They said, "Women only work because they want to live in a big house and buy expensive things. They should put their children first and stop being selfish. All they thing about is themselves". I did point out that I work 3 days and that the boys were not neglected but you could tell by the pitying looks they gave me that they disapproved. They are entitled to their view but how dare they judge me surreptiously in my house when I am feeding them and providing somewhere to sleep. They seem to forget that her father bought her luxury flat in one of Sydney's expensive suburbs and they are now renting it out because they have bought another house. I'm alright Jack phrase comes to mind. However, I remained a civil host, bit my tongue and tended to their needs. I have manners - my immigrant, working class parents saw to that.

They plan to visit us again in a few years time - heaven help us. My friend was not like this before and it is so sad to see his DW's influence obfuscate his once generous and non-judgemental character.

are they good for a borrow? if not i cant for the life of me understand why you have friends like this? do they buy all the rounds at the pub?