Attachment Parenting

[oldhippymum]

Just wondered if anyone else is interested in attachment parenting- although it wasn't called this when i had my first 13 years ago!!

Has anyone else resd the Continuum concept by Jean Liedloff and Three in a bed- Deborah Jackson?

Its all about parenting by being very child led and keeping your child close to you, ie extended breast feeding, co sleeping, no smacking or shouting, not leaving babies to cry etc?

When i had my first two sons 13 and 11 years ago I knew a few people who parented in this way, but since having my daughter 7, and 3rd child 17 months, I can't seem to find anyone else who parents in this way-my fault for being greedy and having too many children i guess!

then i discovered the internet!!!!!!!

Anyone else parent like me?

or am i alone in a world of Gina Ford- NOT THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GINA FORD TO EACH THEIR OWN Maybe I'm the only old hippy left on the block!!

and yes, we are exhausted a lot of the time with a tiny baby and suddenly when i had mine i saw the importance the practices, wrapped in taboo and superstition, which i used to snicker at, where a woman is put in isolation with her newborn for round about 40 days in many traditional societies. where everything is done for them and their children are looked after by others. we are expected and many times expect ourselves to get on with things as soon as we get back from the hospital.

i think that many people who babywear alot, do it a lot and they build up their carrying muscles so incrementally and learn to carry their babies so well that they do not suddenly have a huge learning curve with a wriggly and heavy 4 month old. and of course it depends on the type of jobs you have to do.

... do it a lot^ from when the baby is very small...

kiskidee i have just read some of the articles on the continuum website and i love it. i won't be able to get the book till i go back to UK in august for a holiday... but it will be a good book to read there. and because it has an anthropological slant i thin k i may even be able to get my husband interested in the book!

i don't really know why i did not think to get a sling earlier when my newborn was colicky and would not be put down. i was constantly frustrated at not being able to do anything, not even eat or pee until she fell asleep, (and she only napped for half an hour) and reading continuum was like, on one hand so obvious and yet so damned enlightening.

on a diff note: how do you deal wiv babies who hate the car seat?... she is good on our routine journeys, ie to and from the childminders, but if we take her on a longer journey she can be hell to deal with... ideas on a postcard please...

Hi!

Kiskidee - I have to ask please, what's a tumpline carrier - is that on the back? Want to do some research on slings as am pg with #2 (only 8 wks though, so still plenty of time!) Was introduced to the Mayan wrap by dh's cousin when we went to visit her in Merida (she was brought up there) and liked the idea then - wish I'd known about it for dd. Must admit, when dd was born/tiny, we spent the majority of the time on the sofa, with her lying on my chest snoozing and I just let the housework pretty much go. Dh and I did the bare minimum to keep it somewhat civilised, but I just felt it was more important to get in tune with the new one (and let's face it, housework never completely goes away, no matter how much you do!) plus I was tired and so it was as much for my benefit as hers!

Sashasmama - was also interested in your comment about little ones being more perceptive to 'seeing' things. Dd (14 mnths) often goes to the same point in the hallway and waves and says hello and starts half chattering (in her private gobbledegook language) - it honestly looks like she's talking to someone. Dh and I joke that we have a friendly ghost in the hallway, but maybe there's more to it - hmmmmm

very interesting sashamama, I have always been rather open minded about the idea of 'other worlds' and I do really believe that some people's "channels" are more open than others.

I have talked to her about her fears (for hours and hours on end sometimes) but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

For now, i will carry on doing what she needs I suppose, must admit it's hard sometimes when she follows me around the house all day and won't do anything by herself. And then I have to stay upstairs till she goes to sleep at night.

Like your friend though, I do beleive it will pass.

it won't catch on chococat. imagine a thin sheet laid out on a diagonal, put the baby in the middle. draw up the opposing corners at the baby's sides. tie them into a knot. Give the sheet a twist with baby now in it. Then put across your forehead so taht the baby dangles horizonatally off your back about mid way. Hard to explain. don't know if you can visualise. if you google 'tumpline' in images, you can get teh idea but i haven't come across pics of babies carried this way.

if you want to talk carriers, i like talking carriers.

I have loved reading this, thank you all so much.

I read 'Why love matters' in pregnancy, and a bit of Dr Sears when I was getting attacked about my sleep philosophy, to try and back myself up.

I ended up on lithium postnatally - and got pretty ill when I tried to stop it - and I still grieve the loss of breastfeeding. But I would like to say that apart from that most of what I do is your "lentil weaving".
Months on, people at the baby groups I go to and the local shops STILL raise their eyebrows at the baby in a sling. At this small age shopping or housework isn't a problem, she just comes along too, and loves a trip to Tescos or a play in the kitchen while mummy cleans. I think I may stock up on the toddler books though, thank you.

I think I can just about visualise (I searched it, but it only came up with pictures for tumpline bags!) - if it's what I'm thinking of, then it's like the kind of sling that you see women wear in Mexico City (the women selling stuff at traffic lights etc)?

I'd love to talk slings though. With dd, we carried her around in our arms, or in the panther position (lying on tummy alongside inner arm - she loved this position) which gave 1 arm free for doing a bit of stuff. I eventually bought a baby björn when she was a bit older and had firmed up a bit, but was never happy about her sleeping in this. We still use it now (more often than not so that we can fill the pram with shopping as we don't have a car!) What I would like though, would be a sling where the baby can sleep, but not in a vertical position. Any good starting points for research? TIA!

it would be the same sling.

why don't you want a more upright carrier?

hi chococat, how old is your LO? i was scared to use the carrier too much when she was a baby as i was afraid it would hurt her somehow, in hindsight what a stupid thought that was and what a waste of time it was to be endlessly frustrated over having to carry my baby everywhere with two arms and not be able to do anything else!

now i have two types: an ergo baby carrier which to me is the rolls royce of baby carriers, and i absolutely do not feel her weight when i carry her on my back (i do a bit when i carry her front tho). i use this for longer walks and shopping. I also use a fabric sling for hip carry for short distances or round the house. the reason is because it's 30 degrees C all year round in kuala lumpur and the ergo can get sweaty as it's padded. also it is bulky to carry around and a bit more of a kerfuffle to get on for quick trips. i like having the fabric sling as a backup which i throw into my handbag... i always have a sling when i am out with her alone even when i bring the pushchair, this is because i was once caught out with a baby who refused to get back into the pushchair and i had to walk half a km with 10kg baby in one arm whilst attempting to steer pushchair with other hand, bloody nightmare!

if you like the ergo then you will love a mei tai. they are asian inspired carriers that i think ergo is designed from (influenced by rucksacks, no doubt). There are so many many lovely ones to choose from.

the thing is they can be made with no padding on the baby so they are not hot at all. otoh, they can be made with padding, fleece, etc if you needed a winter one. this could all get mightily expensive as it appeals to a woman's desire to shop.

here is a US site with loads of Mei tai brands many of these brands are also available from UK sling sellers. you can always email and ask which ones are unpadded.

i used to think that of ergos but now that i have discovered mei tais, i think ergos are ordinary. [shame]

I suppose I was thinking more of when the (new) baby is very young and still very floppy, isn't it nicer for them to not be completely vertical? Was worried about all the weight crumpling them up!

Sashasmama - my dd is 14 months and she's actually pretty light - weighed 8.4kg at her one year check (healthy and lively, but petite!) I can still carry her quite far in the baby björn, although I can imagine it would be easier if she was on my back rather than front. But we don't use it on a regular basis as we don't do much that is far from home (she loves walking, so we tend to go for little walks together and play outside - only go on big trips into town etc about once a week!)

What was the best thing you used for your newborns? (Have also heard good things about both the ergo and the mei tei - after we bought the bb - typical! But may invest for this next one)

where are you located chococat? uk or elsewhere? btw, excited taht you also know the Yucatan. The best thing for a newborn, in my opinion is a wrap sling. they are fine being held vertically as long as their legs are in a frog-like position which aids the natural development of the hip socket and spine. I'll find you references later but at the mo i have to start to get ready for work.

What is also great with a wrapsling with a newborn is that you get to learn to use the wrap before they get to the wriggly stage and become even more scared to do wraps. both them and you will be used to slinging before they get wriggly.

i have read recently on a babywearing forum that midwives in switzerland teach new mums how to use wrapslings while they are still in hospital. for this reason, babycarrying with a wrapsling is very common there.

Hi Kiskidee - no, am in Denmark, although I'm half English and was brought up in the UK. Can't pretend that I really know Yucatan but I enjoyed the time that we spent there and look forward to going back. We try to go to Mexico once a year as most of dh's family are there. The Yucatan area is truly beautiful and I love the food. Also went swimming in the senotes - amazing water!

Thanks for the advice - I was thinking something along the lines of a wrap sling (ever since dh's cousin showed me a photo of her using it with her dd - who is older than ours, so doesn't use it anymore!) Not ruling out the 'backpack' type carriers like the ergo etc, but maybe for a bit later on. Would love to read the references and more info when you have the time to post it - thanks!

That's great about the midwives in Switzerland. I guess babywearing is becoming more popular in Europe? Although have to say, I never really noticed babies before dd (don't mean that in a bad way, but I think I notice parents and kids more since becoming a mum!) so I've only really started thinking about it and looking around me the past year or so!

arg! i almost finished my post and lost it!

lets see.. i am of you going to the Yucatan every year.

this article from the continuum concept is a good easy to get your head around and informative read.

this http://www.didymos.de/english/index_e.htm page from Didymos has 4 articles that are good too. I confess to having 2 didymos slings. They are expensive but imo worth it as they are very well made and have a v. good resale value in the babywearing world.

I also have and 1 storchenweige which are also v popular with a high resale value. You really won't make a mistake if you find you don't like the colour or don't get to like them.

this article from Storch is biased but still good for the info it has. I disagree with them that other carriers are not as safe as wrap slings. When a tube or pouch sling or a ring sling is used properly, they are just as good and safe as wrap slings. I confess to owning a 3 pouches and 2 ring slings though a couple were made by me.

this page has good pictures and explanations of how a beginner can get a pouch or ring sling, mei tai and even a wrap sling wrong. Pouches and ringslings have a strong following and the simplicity of them (and less fabric) is definitely an attraction. I can fold up a pouch sling in my hand bag and it just disappears. very good thing when you have to take along all the other baby gear.

This wasn't supposed to be a confessional of my sling ownership. i do also own 2 mei tais and i intend to buy another. It is a warning. Sling ownership can be addictive. Most of my buys came through UKbabywearingSWAP. It is a yahoo group to satisy the addiction.

here is where a lot of the addicts also hang out. it has more great links plus DIY and for sale and trade (new and used) and chat on parenting etc. Its american.

finally finished. sorry so long. If you want some great links to pouches and ring slings and mei tais, let me know.

didymos page

this site has a great sale on at the moment. the owner is also v. knowledgeable and helpful about babywearing. The Hoppediz is also a highly recommended German wrap maker. it will come with a colour instruction booklet.

PS I have no connection to bigmamaslings etc. Just a big promoter of babycarrying. I am sorely tempted by the calinbleu one myself but dont think i can justify another wrap as dd is 2yo and protests carrying more often than not.

wow thank you kiskidee! i loove the didymos ones cos of the colours... it's a bit like the indonesian batik sarong slings, no? we have a lot of indonesian ladies working in kuala lumpur as nannies and they ALL use a sarong sling. they never knot it tho, they just loop it a couple of times at the back of the neck and the tension holds it in place. i tried but could not do it well, so i bought one of those sewn up ones! but yes i reaaaaaly like the look of the mei tais but the funny thing is that is is honestly not sold here at all, considering that it's supposed to be an asian thing. the village folk all use a sarong and the city folk all aspire to buy baby bjorns and maclaren pushchairs which costs about half a month's salary for the average person... i will buy a meitai when i get to the UK for sure. maybe i can start a trend here...

even here in kuala lumpur constant babywearing is considered quite 'lentil'... most of my friends just get their maids to do the carrying instead or dump them into their posh strollers... it is sad that we asians are trying so hard to throw away the APness that is inherent in our culture. you guessed it, we are all busy reading gina ford and supernanny. more and more of my friends now think that they will 'spoil the baby' by picking her up too much... this is certainly not something that bothered our babywearing ancestors, but now my friends don't want to crumple their designer wear.

chococat i was also worried about having my DD upright so much when she was really small, but it seems the fear is unfounded... i think you should get both the sling and the upright carrier. the sling is definitely more comfy for sleeping but the other one is good for when you are out and about cos she will get a better view and can practice holding her head up... as kiskidee has demonstrated you can never have too many baby carriers...

actually, after having read kiskidee's link to the article on baby carriers, i now realise that my worries about having my baby in the baby bjorn when she was really young WAS founded... so i guess the sling is still the best for new babes!

i am sure the article was talking about a baby bjorn atho it didn't mention brand names, cos it's definitely a 'hung from the crotch' type carrier...

SM: if you join UKbabywearingSWAP, i am sure the sling mums on there will be more than happy to post one out to Malaysia for you. They are gently used and well looked after. It is a good way to start off without paying full price.

You are right about so many cultures trying to ape western values without analysing what they can actually benefit from them. It seems like the Japanese are good at selecting out what is beneficial from the rest and ignoring what is not. Apparently in Kenya the big newspaper and tv discussions of this sort is not about breast vs bottle but carrying vs pushchair. I read an excellent article about it but did not save it.

thank you kkd!

now on to my leetle dilemma... dd is biting me a lot! she doesn't really do it out of rage most times... i guess she just bites me like how she would bite her blanket / toys etc. she did bite my hand out of rage the other day tho, because she wanted to walk and i picked her up! ... i have tried stern voices, looking unhappy, even shouting at her, but i really don't think she has made the connection to what she actually did.. have any of you had any experience in this and please o god please tell me it is a phase... !

Hi!

Sorry I've been absent - it's been a busy week. Those are great weblinks Kiskidee - thanks! Will read them properly after Tuesday (have summer course exams at the moment - thank god my mum is here to help with Chocokitten!)

Sashasmama - Dd went through a similar stage recently - and still does sometimes. I was worried about how to handle it because I think while it's important to teach her it's ok to feel angry/frustrated rather than surpressing it, how to you teach a pre-linguistic child how to deal with such big emotions (she went through a phase of pulling her hair while screaming, thankfully didn't last long). She sometimes pinches though or pokes my eyes and pulls my hair and I've taken to saying 'Ow, ow' and then taking her hand to stroke my face (or arm for example) and repeating 'gently, gently' - I've been doing this for a while now and she often repeats it rather than continuing the pinching etc. Have to admit though, she's an independent wee madam, so I generally let her walk when she wants to (which is a lot at the moment!) as I know she'll come and 'ask' for it when she wants me to pick her up.

oldhippymum and all of you - i feel really comforted from reading this thread. It feels so good to follow your instincts and give to your baby what you feel is right - I think it could make a better world if all babies were treated with the sensitivity and respect all people need. I agree its not about rules - its about being gentle and sensitive and in tune with your baby.