I'm not even sure if I like Ds1 anymore......

[LadyTophamOfHattingford]

He absolutley drives me around the fuc*ing bend.

Every single day we have the same issue. Honestly, without fail he will come in to our romm and wake me up to ask a random question even though EVERY night I tell him not to wake me up.

Every day I have to nag him to pick his stuff up whther it's PJ's, clothes, books, games, everything. He plays with it, wear it (or whatever) and just leaves it there when he's finished.

Every night at dinner it's the same things we have to say to him. "Sit on the chair properly", "use your folk/knife properly", "stop messing about"...it goes on and on.

Every day he seems to jump on every opportuntity to wind the other 2 up. Takes stuff they are playing with claiming they weren't even though I know they are and might have put it down to put something else with it.

He never accepts the first answer he gets unliess of course it's yes. Honestly his 2 yr old brother is better at accprting the word No.
He cries if he isn't allowed to do what he wants.

I made a start chart thing last week with a "before school", "after school" and a "before bed" section. Ds1+ 2 have to get a star in each section to earn pocket money. Ds2 loves it and tries so hard to get his little chores done (it's stuff like, homework first then telly, put Pj's on bed, dirty clothes in washing bin in each section so nothing difficult) and has got a star in each section. Ds1 on the other hand has less than half the amount and he honestly couldn't care less. I really don't know why I've bothered making it for him.
He is harder work than ds2+3 put together and in 7months time when this new one arrives he'll still be harder work than all 3.

Over the years I've been on MN I've started a few threads like this about him so I'm really not sure if anyone has anything new to suggest. I think I just want to get it off my chest.

Hi LTH, just wanted to make an observation. You say - "The baby would get all the kisses and cuddles all day whereas I'd be going the hair ruffle thing with the older 2 instead". Isn't this just a demonstration of the point you have already made about your difficulty with intimacy? Babies are so easy to be cuddly with, no reciprocation much and you can almost treat them like a doll (I'm sure that won't come out quite the way I'd intended!). Once they're past the baby stage they become more like little people and your discomfort starts showing.

Have you thought of reading about attachment and bonding issues in children? I'm not suggesting for a second that you're not very securely bonded to your children but the techniques used can be very helpful. Going from head ruffling to big hugs and kisses isn't easy. Try sitting with DS on your lap or next to you facing away from you (perhaps when reading a book together) and hugging from behind or the side. Close facial and eye contact is a bit scary (for both of you!) if you're not used to it.

I should point out that this is entirely theoretical advice from me - haven't had a chance to use it yet, so feel free to entirely disregard!

suejonez,your first paragragh is exactly how I feel. Once they are little people actaully asking for affection I can't do it.....

Cod, Dh does the swimming. TBH It's another flash point of rows when I go with them but havne't tried going with just me and Ds1 so will give it a go.

So wierd because before I started this thread i just saw it a Ds1 was the problem. My issues have always been ticking along beside us all.

Now that I've confessed all my crapness I can see that It's me who causes the problems probably 80% of the time with my stubborness and inability to be affectionate.

DS1 was being his usualy slef today and I was maoning/shouting/screaming at him and I just though "Good God woman...what do you sound like. Give the boy a break"
I think I need to really think that ALOT now and now just when I'm in full flow of telling him/them off.
Also if I'm honest he probably take less notice of me when I shout than whan I just talk to him....I can shout until I'm blue in the face most days and it really has no affect (or should that be effect....can never get those right....sorry) in his behaviour.

ladytop have not read whole thread so forgive me but i will read it all later...
I used to say before i had children i knew i would not LOVE the boy bit between 7 and 11 and sadly i stand by that .
Have had issues with 2 of my boys ( i dont even know how old your ds1 is sorry)but just think its phases . my 9 year old is total pita at the moment and like you i find it hard to be with him at the mo!!! Its just that he does not seem to hear a thing i say and if he does he will certainly NOT do as i ask. It is TORTURE!! BELIEVE me your ds will grow out of it and you will forget you felt this way about him....
I have been through it with ds1 and he has really come out the other side - i can honestly say i did doubt my love for him at times - he just made me so unhappy ! I hate to admit it now as he is a treasure and so dear to me but at times i REALLY did not feel like this...far far from it!
You are being honest about your feelings - dont worry it will pass!

id trya dn limit yourself to only tow orders in ten mins maybe

dh has just come downsatirs form the boys ( 1 nad 2) they were aksed 4 times if they wanted a storya nd ddint answere so they have not had one

I do that already Cod.
if they don't answer after a few times it's too late.

lth its hard to love a child who is being unlovable - you are not being crap - you are trying hard to be good!

ooh lth you hard nut of nitland

It is a very testing phase and somehow when they come out of it, they descend then into adolescence which tbh makes the other phase look like a walk in pretty, leafy, flowery park...
The love you feel at age 0-6 is quite astonishing in its vigour, howeever when they emerge from that dungeon 7-11 phase, you do not resume the same relationship...
it evolves into almost a sparring.
Luckily I have an easygoing 12 yr old, but his evolution is an eye opener, I'm leaving him to it (with provisos)
but I do yearn for that little sweet smelling boy again...

i actually think the butterfly that emerges from the chrysalis is a far better animal than the soft sweet caterpillar that wwent in!!!!!

the jury is still out on that one here
I do adore him to bits though, buts its different...

my ds (6) is waking earlier again - i also think it is alot to do with the sun blaring in the windows (despite having a blackout blind it creeps around the edges). I have invested in an eye mask tend to drift off with ds chattering away. If really early tho (before 6am) I take him back to his room and am very non engaging or really cross () stating he has to get back in bed and show him on his clock that he can get out at certain time - usually 6.30 to 7am. THing is ds always been an early riser and i guess when he hits teens i will have the omplete reverse problem.

We do a sticker chart, have now for about 8 months and it does seem to work but wehre ds is only child he tedns to get attention when he needs it and doesnt need to complete with others. HE wants a little bro or sis but I wonder how he would cope sharing me. Have to say tho that ds recently went throug a phase of arguing about everything, needing reminding about everything.. and basically being a pickle, think they all go thro it and noticed it more when it is the end of school term and they have gotton tired or he is growing.

Chin up LTH it will be fine xx

nutcracker, emailed you earlier re book offer. hope you got that....

Ladytop, you certainly don't come across as a cold person here. As far as I am concerned, anyone who can be so open about themselves simply cannot be cold - I think coldness goes with an inabilty be open to change.

If you find it harder to 'like' the childhood years, is that because for you, they weren't your favourite years? I am the opposite, you see. I find it hard to like the toddler years. I don't have particularly happy memories of being a toddler. I didn't like nursery, or preschool much. My mum was having a hard time with my father. And I don't think I related as well my sons when they were toddlers. Once they were past 4 I was much happier.

I think my childhood past age 6 ot 7 was the happiest time of my life - I particularly adored being 7 and 8 years old, felt really loved and secure and remember having lots of fun. I have said to my sons many times how fun it is being that age, as you are old enough to have learned some basicis - walking, talking, feeding yourself, playing with a ball, riding a bike, a bit of reading etc etc but young enough to still be a total child, have lots of imagination, really enjoy playing, have no big responsibilities, exams or decisions to make. I do think because I so enjoyed this age myself, it's easier for me to be positive about my sons being that age.

I think Cod has made a great suggestion about taking your ds1 swimming - doing something together like that will natually give cuddling opportunities. If swimming is not practical, is there something else you could do like taking him to see an older children's play, or horse riding or something. (tbh I rarely feel like cuddling my son if I take them shopping, so I am with you there).

I do think your dh needs to back off about the meal time etiquette - think of some general rules, but let the rest of the stuff go.

I don't think my childhood was unhappy, sad, or whatever. I don't remeber ever feeling that it's not fun.....
Hmmmmm....I have just realised that my Dad first got his diaognoise(sp?) for lung cancer when I was about 7 so maybe thats where all this lake of affection come from. Obviously and naturally my mum and dad we in the middle of all the tests and operations etc so maybe we took a bit of a back seat. He died when I was 13 so I suppose those years between 7 and 13 were rather fraught (sp??) and there really isn't anything I can do to put all that right.....
My brother and sister are 8 and 10 yrs older than me and my sister mentioned a while ago that it wasn't a cuddly kissy household so even with her being much older she "sees it" too.

Blimey this is getting really deep, it sounds like I'm using my dad as an excuse but it's really not that. The thought really has only just dawned on me.....

Sorry if I got the whole thing a bit off beam before- I didn’t mean to imply that you were like me at all. It’s just that I recognised the similarity in having a less overt cuddly/kissy family and how it had impacted on my own attitudes without really realising it (even though my background and resulting attitudes are clearly completely different).
I don’t think your using your dad as an excuse at all. If you are thinking about what you see as you’re ‘inability to be affectionate’ with the older kids then all you’re doing by thinking about your own past is to try and work out why that might be. If that helps you in some way then that’s great. If you think about it, you’re doing something really brave and amazing and incredibly loving- it’s hard looking at yourself and questioning things (and hard to look back at the past and seeing how that intertwines with who you are now), but your doing it because you love your family and it sounds like you’d like to able to show it more easily. You sound like a really thoughtful lovely woman and I’d love to have you as a mum.

lth i htink tis great you are examining yourself as a part of all this - the annoyance you felt wiht it seems so storng htta there MMSUt be more to it han meets the eye.
a ny good ness gleaned form book yet?
how was ds1 today?

and try and book a siwmming session wiht him
just to have fun you tow a lone
also good for pg ladeez

I think what someone said earlier was right (too lazy to look back at who) - you don't need to be a very tactile parent to raise well adjusted children who you have a great relationship with. My Dad certainly wasn't at all tactile but he and I found our niche by going to watch the rugby together. I rarely kissed him, even as a child, but it never particularly worried me and I never thought anything of it. But I was a very placid child and didn't really need much in the way of overt attention.

If you're not naturally tactile then your challenge comes with a child that needs a more overt method of approval at least for a time. My sister was very like that and we went through a terrible time with her as my parents didn't really know what to do with her. She became a real wild child and was labelled as being a trouble maker. When I look back on it, I think she was desparate for more visible attention and praise, she just didn't understand the understated praise that my parents used on my brother and I. It makes sense to me now, as she is much more of a doer than a thinker, always fidgeting and wanting to be running around, it would stand to reason that she would respond better to a more physical than mental approval process. Of course no-one really thought of it like that then. She's still a live-wire and has a lovely family of her own whom she mercilessly hugs and kisses at every opportunity - no doubt a few years down the road her children will be on here moaning about how her parenting style has damaged them for life!

LTH there are a lot of good ideas on this thread. I think that he is after more time with you on his own and Nutty’s method is great! (that’s good news Nutty as I know you were struggling with dd1).
I can sympathise as DS1 (nearly 7) in some ways is the most work.
Mine are very excited about a smiley face chart we are doing just now tho, if your star chart is not working for ds1 that’s a bit of a pain.
Why not talk to him about what he would like? A 7yo can tell you a lot. Why is he being difficult/not doing what you want, and explain that if he behaves you will have more time to spend 1-1 with him? I know it’s hard but time with just mummy is sooooo important, I think more so the older the children are in a funny way.

ooh sorry lth, posted without reading your later posts.
Very interestign what you say and sounds asif this has helped.
Piffle, interestign too is my lovely 6yo ds1 going to vanish any day now for four years then?

Hello Lady T (and all)

I've been really touched by reading this thread...both by what you've said, Lady T, and the advice you've been given.

I've only got 1 toddling DS so don't really feel 'qualified' to comment/give advice but just wanted to say your kids are really lucky to have such a thoughtful Mum xx.

oi lth
update

do you think 9-11 is the pits of the nightmare in boys?