What's it really like with two?

[Cbell]

I know it's a very general question but I find myself pregnant with baby number two (unplanned: failed coil) and am not sure if I want more.

All I can think about is how hard it will be and how much I will miss enjoying my DD (17 months)

Very sad

Everything you describe rings a bell with me too, Gilberte with the eldest and youngest interactions. I also find DH being around much more easier to deal with the two of them as you can spend your whole day playing 'referee' and stopping fights, arguments and the like. Oh it can be hard work...sorry, I'm sounding like an broken record now!

• a broken record

Thisisnot - What about what neither of them naps at all!! :)

pommed obviously my older 2 don't nap - they are 4 and 6. My youngest (13 months, nearly 14) only naps on me, though sometimes I can put him down... My eldest dropped her daytime naps at 18 months, when I was pregnant with my 2nd, and she always got up at 5am til she was about 4 - then she started sleeping longer but her brother had taken over the dawn shift :) Luckily my middle one, though an early riser, was a reasonable sleeper (as in only 1-2 wake ups a night, and started sleeping through at about 8 months) and also napped til he was 2.5.

Sleep is an issue, but my point is that it is an issue with one child, if that child is a poor sleeper/ doesn't nap.

I am not at all saying it is easy, but I am saying that the work load does not multiply exponentially by the number of children - 2 or 3 is not twice or three times the work, it is just A BIT more work than the more difficult of the children at that point would be on their own anyway - UNLESS you have severe jealousy issues as a few people have discussed. Genuinely also the entertainment / company work load goes down dramatically when you have more than 1, once the second is mobile and as long as you don't have the severe jealousy, which I think is unluckily the reality for some but not at all the norm.

I get time to mumsnet when the kids are playing together rather than when the little one naps. I also have a messy house - of course it is hard getting stuff done BUT that is due to having a 13 month old, not due to having 3 kids - he clings to me less if his siblings are in, so I often get more done with all 3 home in the afternoons than in the mornings when the older 2 are at school/ kindergarten or than if they are playing out.

Some of it is attitude and how much you can relax and just go with the flow and not let mess or a little bit of bickering bother you (I have a policy of letting them solve their own differences up to a point - obviously not if they get violent but that very, very, very rarely happens, and I intervene if the volume gets silly or one is saying properly nasty things, but I don't police who's turn it is/ somebody snatched from somebody etc. unless one is constantly getting the worse deal.. and it usually works).

The biggest factor though just seems to be the personalities of the kids you get - I am lucky mine are fairly laid back and enjoy playing together, and the 4 year old is most upset he is not allowed to marry his sister when he grows up :) He is also his little brother's biggest cheer leader if he does anything new or even a bit clever, and biggest worrier about him if he thinks he has or might hurt himself etc. and he genuinely enjoys playing with him and teaching him things - he taught him to drink through a straw the other day and was so proud :)

If all we wanted was peace, quiet, tidy houses and an easy life we wouldn't have had kids at all would we? More than one increases the volume and mess and decreases the sleep, but in my own, personal, subjective experience it is not all one long slog at all, by any means, not even a bit.

I recognise those who find it hard love their kids just as much and are just as good mothers btw Ilovechoc - maybe they are better and fret more about small stuff I just let slide and have higher standards, and maybe that's why they find it hard?

The thread was started by, and has been joined by, people expecting no 2 - that is the only reason I didn't want to keep leaving it with the message that it is a largely joyless slog dominated by kids fighting and drudgery, for everyone nor even for the majority, at all, whilst recognising some people's experience may be like that.

thisisnit - actually apart from the sleep I am loving it. Yes you have more to think about during the day but it suits me that way anyway. Dd2 is a darling in the day and bf is going well. Dd1 is so cute with her sister and everything feels more balanced with two in the house.

However the sleep is a killer and of course it's worse with two! Dd2 at 16 weeks has done a stretch of 6 hours twice and both tunes dd1 has had me up. 2 definitely equals less sleep so the majority of people surely?!

eastendywendy - Yes I imagine a smaller age gap is generally harder physically (nappy changes, carrying around, cajoling stiff bodies into carseats), I think that a 3 yr gap is possibly harder emotionally (3-4 yr olds can be very wearing emotionally) but this is obviously not helped when you have jealousy issues. I think a child (of a certain temperement) who has received undivided attention for 3 years WILL be more prone to jealousy than a toddler who can't remember much of his life prior to having a sibling.

The sleep thing undoubtedly makes things worse for some people. I mean I'm one of those who has found it particularly hard but I also have an 18 mth old who wakes every two hours for a feed. I haven't ( with a short respite during pregnancy) had an uninterupted 8 hrs sleep in 4.5 years now!

Are you me Gilberte 6 months ago? . DS2 kept waking every two hours for feeds, but ended up doing gradual retreat technique with him as I couldn't tolerate it any longer, I was a wreck.

Hope things get easier for you. I've a 5yo and a nearly 2yo and despite my whinging yesterday on this thread, I will say yes in general it is getting slightly easier. Ds2 has been sleeping through since 17 mo, and from that POV I'd say my life is manageable with them both.

Agree with you also: "I think that a 3 yr gap is possibly harder emotionally (3-4 yr olds can be very wearing emotionally) but this is obviously not helped when you have jealousy issues. I think a child (of a certain temperement) who has received undivided attention for 3 years WILL be more prone to jealousy than a toddler who can't remember much of his life prior to having a sibling."

It is just the bickering that gets to me a lot throughout the day. I just wish they'd get along better. I know siblings tend to argue but it can sometimes get out of hand (hitting each other).

Pommed With my 24 month gap I think maybe I was an exception with the sleep, because my eldest was a very poor sleeper for her first year, a bit better til we moved house (big move which happened when I was 5 months pregnant) when she was 19 months, then it all went to pot for the next 5 months - she was up multiple times a night and took hours and hours to settle at bedtime and in the night during the second half of my pregnancy, then, miraculously (I am sure not, I think it is that suddenly everything fell into place and made sense she relaxed) within days of me bringing DS1 home from hospital, she started sleeping through! As DD had fed every 45 mins for her first few months of life and been hard to put down flat, I was so incredibly impressed by DS1 going 3 hours between nice efficient 15 minute night feeds from when my milk came in on day 4 (as if he'd read a text book) , that I felt I was getting MORE sleep with 2 than 1! Yes DD was up at 5am, but she always had been, and I was getting up in the night to DS1 instead of to her, and there had been no gap, almost a direct swap over!

With my 3.5 year gap my older 2 sleep through and although the middle one gets up very early he had already accepted by 3.5 the rule that when he wakes up in the morning he is not allowed to leave his room except to go to the toilet until he hears the shower running (DH is up at 5.45 for work anyway). So I only ever had the baby's sleep to deal with 3rd time around, like first time. 3rd baby is a poor sleeper but that is nothing to do with having siblings and I get no less sleep than if I had one only child who was a poor sleeper. I can't sleep in the day with older ones coming home at lunch time, but tbh I couldn't if he were an only either as he tends to cat nap if I do manage to get him down in the cot, and a 30-45 min sleep is no good to an adult.

The only time I really found the fact there were (then) 2 of them very hard indeed and could attribute it to their being 2 not one was once when DH was away for 10 days - work trip that ran straight into a long before booked skiing trip with his friends) and both kids came down with a very nasty D&V bug separately but one after the other (one up multiple times in the night vomiting and drowsy in the day but the other full of bounce in the day as not ill) , and then I got it too just as the 2nd was starting to get better - when I got ill too and the kids were still having nasty nappies but full of energy I called DH crying and asked him to cut his ski trip short. But that is an exceptional circumstance - it is hard having more than one, especially if fate has it you are on your own just then, when they are ill in that intense way (not too hard when they are just a bit off colour obviously).

Sorry I am waffling. Will stop. :)

Glad you are finding it easier Ilovechoc and hope the sleep improves very soon Gilberte - I night weaned DS2 at 11 months, it wasn't a miracle cure but his sleep has been getting gradually better since then (down to average 1-2 wake ups per night from 5 or 6 between aged 5 and 11 months). Hope longer stretches of sleep are just around the corner for you too!

I have a 3 year 2 month gap and it's all honestly it's much harder work than I ever thought! Sometimes they get on great but other times the constant bickering, demanding of my attention and guilt that I feel by not being able to give either 100% gets you down. We have great times as well and I have no regrets but I was shocked at how much harder having 2 is compared to 1 and I really don't know how people cope with 3+

There's 3.3y gap between my two Bigwheel and I agree with all that you've posted. Today was one of 'those days' and I was shouting a lot at the eldest one because they just cannot get along. DH says I should just get used to it because he and his brother were exactly the same - it's a brother thing apparently! Doesn't make it any easier when you've got to put up with it all on your own for the whole day.

I shudder at the thought of having another child added in - have made sure all precautions are in place in that department so I never have the reality of it again. It would bring me out in a cold sweat (and to think I was mad enough to consider a third when my youngest was only months old - madness!).

Sorry I'm going on again...

The gap between my boys is 3 years 7 months - could the 4/5 months be the difference? Also my older boy is the middle child not the eldest, maybe never having not had a sibling helps? My eldest was never really a "proper" only either as I was child minding 2 other little ones full days Mon- Fri from when she was tiny. Not sure if those things are factors or if it is purely down to personality. Sleep deprivation (and with the smaller gap between the first 2 breast feeding as I said before) have really been the only issues worth mentioning here, and the sleep is specific to one child not really particularly a result of having 2/3.

But when you are sleep deprived with a baby, at least you can have naps throughout the day when they nap...when you have two other children to entertain on top of that, I'd imagine it is extra work is it not?? The number of children does make a difference! I noticed it from going 1 to 2! Big difference. Again, I think it must be related to the 3 year gap thing, because others like myself have posted similar (but not the same) experiences.

Everyone out there - don't have a three year gap between your children. It's a nightmare!

lovechoc don't have a three year gap between your children. It's a nightmare!
It's a nightmare for YOU, but there's nothing wrong with a 3 year gap. I have a DS of 4.3 and a DD of 13 months and it's been an excellent age gap. There has never been any jealousy whatsoever, DS is besotted with DD and vice versa. I've been very lucky and I do think it's luck of the draw and the mix of personalities, not the age gap. You said a 3 yr old who has had undivided attention will be more likely to be jealous than a younger child who doesn't remember not having a sibling, but you could as equally say that a 3 year old is that bit more independent and able to adjust better than a younger child who still needs more undivided attention. Anyway, of course a younger child remembers life before their sibling, one day they have mummy to themselves and the next day mummy comes home from hospital with a baby, I'd argue, if anything they're MORE likely to be jealous as they're still too little to understand as much as a 3 yr old could. But I still think it's their personalities rather than the gap.
By the time DD arrived DS was at nursery in the mornings and sleeping through the night and potty trained and able to chat to me, be my little helper. Added to that he wasn't jealous and it made life much easier than if I'd had her when he was still pre verbal (he spoke late), in nappies and maybe not sleeping well (although he's always been a good sleeper).

I've found (to my surprise) it's easier with 2 once you get past the establishing bf, loads of night feeds stage. I'm more relaxed about things, they amuse each other and I find I just get on with things instead of fretting and second guessing myself. There's more "work" in terms of food prep, tidying etc but I've found it less stressful and more interesting with 2 and I NEVER thought I'd be the kind of person to say that.

It's different - not better, or worse . A bit like somebody changed the rules, but didn't tell you. You just end up doing what works for you

Ah but there's a few on here with a similar age gap who find it hard, so I'm not the only one here, lagartija You must just be very fortunate.

I am constantly having to seperate them (and I do give them time to work things out for themselves but if I leave it too long, all hell breaks loose).

I'm very lucky that my kids get on well and DS hasn't been jealous, but I don't think it's anything to do with the age gap, (not my parenting either ) just their personalities. IME it's been friends with a roughly 2 yr gap who've had problems, but again...I think it's about the kids involved rather than age gaps. I think all gaps have different challenges. No one gap is inherently worse, just worse for YOU maybe.

I'm with lovechoc and Gilberte here.

I'm reading this thread and feeling quite sad. It turns out my children are high maintenance and I didn't really realise that and I thought it was the norm. The concept of two siblings close in age playing together harmoniously is a totally alien concept to me.

I have a DS and a DD, 21 months apart. I can't leave the two of them alone (DS is now 3.6yrs and DD is 22 months) for a minute. Even if I go to the loo, DD is crying because DS has hurt her or grabbed something off her. Can't drink a cup of tea in peace. Somebody earlier on in the thread said that they could mumsnet while their DCs played and just sounds like a parallel universe to me. I can't even answer a bloody text on my phone. I have to supervise them ALL THE TIME. It is hard hard hard work. DS is jealous of DD obviously, and whatever we do, whatever tactics we use, he just won't let her play with his (or even her toys), wants constant attention from me when DD is around, etc etc. Whatever DD chooses to play with, DS then wants it.

It was easier when they were younger, before DD was mobile. Easiest in the first few weeks infact when all DD did was feed and sleep. It is not getting easier, it is getting harder. I worry for my sanity and my DH's too. He is the most patient and tolerant person I know and even he was feeling utterly depressed this weekend at the constant slog and hard work that is being with both of the children.

DS only starting sleeping through recently. DD is nowhere near sleeping through. I am fine with the sleep deprivation actually and have got used to it, so it is not an issue anymore (I BF and co-sleep, so I don't get disturbed too much when DD wakes up). It is the sibling rivalry and the sheer hard work of tending to 2 small children that is difficult.

Spending time with them individually is easy. DS is lovely, interesting, funny, clever etc etc when he is on his own, without DS around. He is very easy to look after. Plays on his own, is calm and is an absolute angel. But throw DD into the mix and he goes through a complete character reversal. BUT, he does ask for DD when she is not around, never says anything bad about her and talks about her, and I know he loves her. It's just that he can't leave her alone when they are together, constantly bullying her and haressing her. DD loves DS to bits and we have amazing heart melting moments when she interacts wonderfully with DS and brings him things to eat, cuddles him when he is upset, brings him his coat and shoes when we are getting ready to go out, etc etc the list goes on. She is very motherly to him and absolutely adores him. But DS never reciprocates.

I have a friend who has 2 boys, ages 3.5 and 5.5yrs and they are even worse together. They fight like cat and dog. The older one doesn't even let the younger one into his room let alone play with his toys. So that is why I thought my situation wasn't that unusual and the hard slog when they are young is to be expected.

And now I am extremely jealous of hearing that siblings can get along together, and most mums are not nearly and stressed out as I am

I'm going to bow out now as I don't want to be making people sad, I just wanted to reassure those who are currently pregnant with number 2 that it isn't horrible (the OP has disappeared anyway though).

I have a 2 year gap and a 3 year 7 month gap and both have worked fine for us, neither better than the other except that I worry DS2 will be a bit left out because DD and DS1 are such a pair. But DD is already a very independent, sociable child and out a lot, so DS1 already turns to DS2 when she is out, and hopefully that bond will build as DS2 talks more etc.

Personality of the children must be what it comes down to. Choceyes your DS1 plays well alone you said - well my DD (the eldest) seems to be inherently incapable of playing alone - think maybe she was meant to be a twin or something (have no actual grounds for that lol) but that girl NEEDED siblings :o Both my older 2 have told me frequently would like a little sister next, but alas it isn't going to happen!

Oops forgot to say I'm thatsnotitatall I name changed :o

and my 3 kids are playing in the garden together with a couple of the neighbour kids, I'm just watching through the window (ducks)... The older 2 do have to accept the gate being locked so DS2 can't get onto the road, but their friends have learnt to climb over!

Are you me choceyes?!

I can relate to almost all your post choceyes - I also think siblings getting along is an alien concept and felt really left out on this thread until you and only a few others replied....seems I'm not the only one who finds it all hard work then.

Or on this thread, it may be the case that some of us are more open and honest about the situation than others. Or that some of us just have better coping mechanisms. Or I must just be a seriously crap mum :(