If it's been done before, I'm sorry - but please, could I start a support thread for dealing with my 4-year-old?

[Jacksmania]

I'm not being a very good mummy right now. I'm being an awful shouty mummy. :( It's making me feel horrible all the way to the bottom of my soul, and yet I can't seem to help it.

My four-year-old is the sweetest, funniest, cleverest thing in the whole world (moi, PFB? :o). I love him so much it makes my heart hurt sometimes.
And he's also four... which means he whines, cries, argues, and acts like a cheeky brat. I can cope with the cheekiness. But right now, I can't cope with the whining and crying. I don't know what I'm doing wrong - but how can such a cheerful, funny child have days when he starts every request with crying? This morning he hopped in the shower with me, and immediately started crying. "What's wrong??" "Mummy can you get my baaaaaaath toooooyyyyys" . Oh. My. God. Why can he not just ask?????? "Mummy can you please get my bath toys. " You bet, no problem.

Then it was folding his clothes out of the dryer. I made the horrendous mistake of folding his shorts and putting them away. Cue hysterical tears. "Whyyyyyyy can't I foooooooold my shoooooooorts..."
Repeat with every other nonsensical thing and half an hour later my blood pressure is through the roof because the default is to cry and whine and not simply ^ask".

WHAT am I doing wrong? Why can't he just ask???????????

And yet, half an hour later he can be a completely different child, happy and cheerful, and then back to crying over something stupid.

I am going round the bend. I really am.

We just came back from holiday, and while there, he had a massive strop because we couldn't go get another lemon cupcake because it was time to go to the airport.
I'm so ashamed of myself but I literally snapped. Something just went "ping" and I hurled my hairbrush on the floor (well away from him, on purpose - I had that much control) so hard it shattered. And I came close to doing the same this morning, with a cup of fruit salad, but got a hold of myself in time Thank fuck or there'd have been melon all over the ceiling.

I hate myself when I'm like this. I feel like I'm turning into my bloody father who had a scary temper when I was young. Don't know if he still does but that's a different story. I actually frightened myself with the rage I was feeling when he wouldn't stop whining and crying.
I am setting a shit example for him - I don't want him to turn out like me!!

I thought I saw a three-year-old support thread last year sometime, but didn't post on it - could I start a four-year-old support thread?
What am I doing wrong?
Please someone tell me, because I feel so shit right now, I hate being shouty and scary like this.

Margo, I'm snot sure if I should say thank you or what but your post made me cry.
On thinking about it - thank you. I will think more about it.

A huge part of my problem is that I am prone to depression and anxiety disorder. So when my inner world is out of kilter, it doesn't take much to tip me over into not-coping.

I have promised myself that I am going to sort that out this year. Partly because I want to feel better, and partly because I don't want my broken brain to really eventually turn me into a shit parent. I've already spoken with a colleague and am going to ring for an appointment in April when DH is done with all his courses and conferences and is home again so I'll have more some any time.

Someone told me recently that children hold up a mirror to your true self. That they show you who you really are. I fully realize that what I see and what DS shows me may not be the same thing - much of the world these days comes to me through a filter of self-loathing and unhappiness with myself, so it's not his fault, my poor sweet little man :(
But I've seen two people - a fun and loving mum, and an evil screaming monster with horns and dripping fangs. Don't I sound attractive, me.
I don't know if I can ever make the evil monster mummy go "poof", but I'd like to try.

Meanwhile - yesterday again was a good day, and today I won't see him much, :(, but on the bright side, I have a few hours to myself which I desperately need... and then feel terribly guilt for needing... :(

oh jacksmania, you poor thing. I'm sort of glad my post made you cry. Hopefully in a good way.

You are definitely not an evil screaming monster. You just get utterly hacked off sometimes like we all do. Sometimes we might even over-react and go too far and be a bit horrible. That's ok too. Still doesn't make you an evil screaming monster.

If you can build up your self-belief and see yourself for what you really are - a loving, hard-working mummy - you'll get through this. You are already not your dad - you are really self-aware and working to try to make the best life you can for your son. He's a lucky boy you know.

Late to this put I too feel your pain - firstborn Ds (4.4) can be the most amazing, wonderful, bright child but can also be a total PITA!!

Our current issue is with listening (or not as the case may be) and over the past few months with some help from the HV I have implemented some new coping strategies to help with his nightmare behaviour and that AWFUL whining!! The one which seems to have worked best is to have a pasta shapes jar - so empty to start with and he gets a certain number of pasta shapes for whatever good behaviour we are focusing on - to start off with it was awful bedtimes and waking up at 3am and shouting and arguing about going back to bed and also using the toilet - so he gets 5 pasta shapes for doing a good bedtime and no overnight shouting and 1 each time he uses the toilet. We have a 'prize' for him to aim for when he fills the jar and at the moment its a Blok Squad fire engine set. He also gets shapes for other good behaviour and he has them removed for bad behaviour - at one sitting he lost 32 for continually shouting on the toilet when told to stop - stubborn little git!!

It seems to be working though and I am a lot calmer than I was - still have the shouty mummy times though.

DD who has just turned 2 and is starting the terrible 2's (oh how I inwardly laugh when first time parents go on about the terrible 2's - little do they know ) so my patience is being tested big time..........

unfortunately, the humour idea has never worked for us. DD just gets incredibly offended. Or I am not funny.

In the last couple of days I have found just living withthe crossness the most effective thing. It's not quite ignoring it, but just not trying to sort it out, along th elines of, 'Ok. Well if yo need to be cross, you be cross I'm going to do x,y,z.' It's not quick, but it she does come out of it and say sorry by herself (there's usually tears). Today she was stropping because DS was in a pushchair and she wasn't onthe walk home. She was doing all the 'I'm cross mummy. I don;t like you any more.' business and I just said, 'Oh sorry about that DD, but we do have to get home, here we go la-di-dah etc.'

She sent herself to her room when we got in and cried hysterically and I went up a few minutes later and we has a cuddle and she said sorry unprompted. Similar happened with bath yesterday. She wouldn't come up so I just left her, eventually she stropped her way upstairs, grumped into the bath, threw water at DS, got a warning she'd come out, came out, cried hysterically, then came to me for a hug, said sorry and got over it.

It's not quick but it's much easier and more effective than other things I try (so far). I do mix it up with warnings, clear penalties etc too.

Think it depends on the sort of child you have. DSs2 can be a bit of a whiner, and even at 8 talks in a baby voice sometimes to get what he wants... "Noooo it's tooo harrrrd....you do iiiit " putting his socks on for example. He was much worse when he was littler though. Distraction worked on him, as did "I cant hear whining, I will not respond to that tone of voice". You are doing fine. I stress about the shoutiness too, same reasons you do, but you are not your father, as I am not my stepfather. It is normal to feel that way, and sometimes us stressy depression heads over analyse our reactions and feelings I think!

Lots of deeeep breaths. :)

We've had a good weekend (a few timezones ahead of UK). Spent some good quality time with her and only had one big shout which, to be honest, was a bit of an overreaction from me, but weeks of whinging will do that to a person.

I read somewhere to try to fix "your inner voice", ie if you are trying to keep shouty Mummy inside by not shouting but thinking "You little whatsit, you're so annoying" etc, then that won't help either. So I've been trying to think positive thoughts. It's helped a bit.

The other thing that has made things a teeny bit better has been allowing her to be my helper in anything and everything. She seems to quite like that, even if it is the most pointless job.

And finally, who am I kidding - DH has been home this weekend so having a 1:1 ratio of adults to kids (rather than me usually being outnumbered) always makes such a difference.

How's everyone else? I meant to ask!

BigHairyLeggedSpider, you've made me laugh out loud for the first time in days :) - us "stressy depression heads" - ohhh, so true! I wish it weren't.

I have called and made an appointment to deal with myself. Unfortunately I can't get in until the week after Easter. So, thanks in advance and to all who are going to be putting up with me between now and then.

It's been a tough weekend. And I'm mostly on my own this week as DH will be away at a conference.
This weekend I was told by DS that Daddy is his best friend and I am a mean old bully. I felt stabbed straight to the heart, especially because I think DS is right. DH is the best dad, he really is. And I am mean and shouty, I know it. Still. It was just gutting.
Thank God I got to go for a walk with a friend and bless her, pour everything out to her. I think without that, it would have been a baaaaaaaad day.

Does anyone else ever feel like when you're having a hard time, kindness just undoes you? A mum I'm friendly with from preschool knew I was struggling to find care for DS this week because of Dh being away (we both work reduced hours so one of us has DS most of the time) and offered to have him any and all times that I needed. She has an older child, a DS with Down Syndrome and a young baby. And just breezily offered to have DS every day. Like it was nothing. I am in awe. And beyond depressed at myself in comparison. I can barely cope with my one!! She said, "don't worry, we'll take him to the zoo with us so you can have some down time!" I sobbed all the way home from dropping DS off because I felt so utterly inadequate.
And then planted roses and peonies in the sunshine, feeling marginally better. And so terribly guilty for utterly relishing being alone.

My birthday is coming up. I am waiting for DH to ask me what I want. I've known for months: I want a day when we can all do something really fun as a family, and then a day entirely alone in my house. I don't care where they go as long as I know they'll have fun, but I want at least 8 hours alone in my house. That's the only thing I want for my birthday this year.

Marking spot to read whole thread - I have a nearly 5 y/o coming out the other side of this and will post soon

Be gentle with yourself the same as you are for your child and every other person.

Yup, I'm a member of the frolicsome fours parenting club.

And we had the biggest tantrum yesterday.
I did time out
After a while, DD came to ask me if I was okay and did I want to come and play?

I think it's tough all around at times for both parents and children but this is only part of the rest of the time. Focus on where you want to be not where you are at. And keep your aim on it.

I never experienced the terrible twos with my boys. 4 was awful with DS2, it is getting better now.

At the worst point when I was pregnant with DS3 one of his screamfests lasted almost 2 hours. These included plenty of kicking and hitting.

All the while I was getting daycare reports on how kind and responsible he is, how he is polite and helpful and looks after the younger children

I read that children often behave terribly at home because they feel safe there and can express their feelings, and that this behaviour is horribly normal.

It was at its worse if he was tired or hungry or worse still both.

He responded well to lots of empathy and hugs, but also consistently not responding to whining or pestering. The worst of it is over but he will still whine to try get his way and ask for the same thing 100s of times. He needs firm boundaries and lots of understanding.

You are a great mum because you are doing your best and you care about how you are affecting your DS. Hang in there!

Can I join in? I too have a Jekyll-and-Hyde 4-year-old - so sweet and affectionate a lot of the time, but hideous monster from hell the rest of the time. I was so sure I would never be one of those shouty mums, and managed pretty well through the terrible twos, but now ... I've always hated when you see mums dragging or yanking at their kids instead of handling them calmly and gently, and was always smugly sure I would never treat my children like that - but in the face of unbearable, relentless tantrums, when DD won't move off the floor/get in the car/stop hitting DS I find myself doing this more and more and I can't believe I've turned into that sort of mother.

Had total and utter melt-down at the dentists the other day - proper lying on the floor kicking and screaming in front of a waiting room full of people. In the end I strapped her in the pushchair and left her outside in the street whilst in paid so that I could hear the receptionist (knew she was safe because I could hear the screams!)

She's always soo good with people she doesn't know so well, probably because she is quite shy. My friend thinks she is the best behaved child ever, which kind of makes me feel chuffed, but also makes me want to scream 'you don't know what I'm going through!'. I tell her what a nightmare DD can be, but I don't think she believes me.

By the way, I agree with what Jnice said. If your child behaves terribly with you, you know that you make them feel so loved and secure that they feel they can behave like this without forfeiting your love. If they are much better behaved with DP then you can smugly reflect that they don't feel quite so comfortable with him/her, so feel bound to be on better behaviour.

Children really don't behave in this way with people who scare them or who they are unsure of, so you can be sure that your occasional outbursts are not making your DS feel afraid or unsafe or less close to you.

Ah that is nice to here iismum especially as DH smugly tells me that DD3 never throws tantrums at him

Todays spectacular drama was ready meal gate.

All 3 children were fed hot meals at school/nursery but apparently chicken salad wouldn't do as a substantial evening meal so I gave in let the children choose a ready meal each

I will say that the above was mainly my stroppy 10 year old but....

DD3 picked up sausage, carrot & swede mash.

Me: "that is yummy but your sister is having pasta & ham, are you sure you don't want the same?

4y old "No I would like this" - chucks it in basket.

I then lovingly serve their ready meals (I know I know) and DD3 is all "what is that"

me: "that is what you asked for, you picked it"

4y old "No, I want pasta & ham"

me; "well, you chose this so either eat it or don't, your choice"

DD2 then walks in with a plate of said ham and pasta.

SHE HAS MY HAM AND PASTA, GIVE ME MY DINNER!!!!!!!!!! ETC ETC

DD2 must have burnt her throat trying to shovel hot fucking pasta & ham down her throat fearing I was going to snap & make her give it to DD3 at any given minute.

I asked DD3 what she wanted for her dinner after school today, her face darkened and her eyes narrowed before she replied in a low & slow tone "pasta and ham".............

OMG - how did you not just explode? Even reading it makes me go white-hot. I loathe that kind of behaviour

Well, DH has gone to his conference for the next four days. It'll be just DS and I by ourselves. Wish me luck.

DD (4.2) is sooooo trying

Every morning we have shoe gate where she will either pretend she cannot put her shoes on by herself, scream blue murder to wear her open toed sandals (not allowed in nursery and DD has been told this and why) or demand to wear her wellies instead

I have tried reward chart (not interested) naughty step (she pretnds to love naughty step) and currently not letting her scoot to nursery (but this morning she said she did not want to scoot anyway and all the way to nursery kept talking about how fun it was to walk).

Food is another issue as the is very picky about the way things are laid on the plate and had a 45 min tantrum because a couple of chips fell off her plate onto the table.

She also demands to know what she is having for tea as soon as she has woken up, I have not even decided what I am wearing at this point!!

And don't even get me started on the whinging, I have to confess I lost it yesterday as she whinged pretty much solidly from coming out of nursery till bedtime and I lost my temper and threw her plastic cup (she was whinging about it being the wrong colour) into the sink from across the kitchen and swore a bit counted to 10.

I have to take her to the GP today as she has a touch of excema (sp) and I predict an embarrassing melt down in the surgery about something only she knows as I am not a mind reader.

Just sticking my head in the door to say, It was DS's 5th birthday yesterday, and this morning he was an arse.

DS was ok. Moderate whinging only aaaaaaaaaarrrrggghhhhhhh.

Oh oh I neeeeed this thread!

DS is 4.3 and I thought it was just him me. Thank goodness all your children are as horrible as mine .

Ugh he's still a lovely sweetheart occasionally, but he's so, so demanding and can be such a tasmanian devil when he doesn't get his own way.

Although it's not so much whiging in our house, as a total refuasl to listen/act.

Having to ask him 15 times to do the most basic of things (put shoes on, put toys away, get in the shower, clean up spilled milk etc etc etc) makes me CRAZY. I can hear my voice rising with every time I have to ask him until I just snap and really shout. Then he gets terribly upset and wants hugs and I feel like a complete shit.

Can I hear a chorus of groans for THE LONG WALK HOME FROM SCHOOL.

DD learnt to dawdle today. Joy.

She's being nice now though.

Long walk home is, of course, close cousin to this:

Can we go to the park? / yes / - shouting when it's time to go
Can we go the park? / no / shouting because we're not going

Today I said yes to playing batman, I was the best mummy EVER :)

[small victories]

StopSwearing you just made me laugh like a mad women!!

DD3 insisted on wearing her pink pumps even though they are to big because apparently blue is a boys colour and she can't possible wear them anymore

Ooooh I'm so glad to have found this thread. DS, 4y and 8m, has been a monster for the last two months.

I seriously thought it was my parenting. He's fine at school and with others - only I seem to see the whining, complaining, hitting monster. I've been getting so wound up by him that I think I need counselling or something to change the way I react to him.

It's a relief to find that others have children that behave like him. I'll be buying that 123 book as soon as I can :)