If it's been done before, I'm sorry - but please, could I start a support thread for dealing with my 4-year-old?

[Jacksmania]

I'm not being a very good mummy right now. I'm being an awful shouty mummy. :( It's making me feel horrible all the way to the bottom of my soul, and yet I can't seem to help it.

My four-year-old is the sweetest, funniest, cleverest thing in the whole world (moi, PFB? :o). I love him so much it makes my heart hurt sometimes.
And he's also four... which means he whines, cries, argues, and acts like a cheeky brat. I can cope with the cheekiness. But right now, I can't cope with the whining and crying. I don't know what I'm doing wrong - but how can such a cheerful, funny child have days when he starts every request with crying? This morning he hopped in the shower with me, and immediately started crying. "What's wrong??" "Mummy can you get my baaaaaaath toooooyyyyys" . Oh. My. God. Why can he not just ask?????? "Mummy can you please get my bath toys. " You bet, no problem.

Then it was folding his clothes out of the dryer. I made the horrendous mistake of folding his shorts and putting them away. Cue hysterical tears. "Whyyyyyyy can't I foooooooold my shoooooooorts..."
Repeat with every other nonsensical thing and half an hour later my blood pressure is through the roof because the default is to cry and whine and not simply ^ask".

WHAT am I doing wrong? Why can't he just ask???????????

And yet, half an hour later he can be a completely different child, happy and cheerful, and then back to crying over something stupid.

I am going round the bend. I really am.

We just came back from holiday, and while there, he had a massive strop because we couldn't go get another lemon cupcake because it was time to go to the airport.
I'm so ashamed of myself but I literally snapped. Something just went "ping" and I hurled my hairbrush on the floor (well away from him, on purpose - I had that much control) so hard it shattered. And I came close to doing the same this morning, with a cup of fruit salad, but got a hold of myself in time Thank fuck or there'd have been melon all over the ceiling.

I hate myself when I'm like this. I feel like I'm turning into my bloody father who had a scary temper when I was young. Don't know if he still does but that's a different story. I actually frightened myself with the rage I was feeling when he wouldn't stop whining and crying.
I am setting a shit example for him - I don't want him to turn out like me!!

I thought I saw a three-year-old support thread last year sometime, but didn't post on it - could I start a four-year-old support thread?
What am I doing wrong?
Please someone tell me, because I feel so shit right now, I hate being shouty and scary like this.

Appealing to DS's competitive nature works well too, "I bet you can't get your clothes off before I run the bath...oh look, you've won again, well done DS!" He hasn't worked out yet that it takes way less time to take his clothes off than it does to run a full bath

Oh and with the not listening thing, I often get DS to repeat what I've said if I think it hasn't sunk in.

Another member of the fucking fours fucked off parents club signing in!

DS is 4.10 and does everything in all of the posts above, and it is exhausting and horrible. He also finds it hard to entertain himself, wants to be with me all the time and won't get himself dressed (unless I am not there - miraculously he can dress himself if his gps are looking after him). But his also all of the good things too and then it is lovely and wonderful.

I think I am going mad sometimes with how my emotions swing from total adoration and overwhelming love for him followed by a deep dark desire to put him in a cupboard for a week an hour just to have a break from the whinging, negotiating, "oh but", "I won't be your friend if", endless chat!

Also the guilt, oh yes I feel your pain on the guilt. DS is at school and I really look forward to picking him up at the end of his day. Our walk home is less than 10 mins but sometimes takes more than twice that because of the tears and tantrums about nothing - ie you walked in front of me, and I wanted to stand there, and I don't want my coat on but why didn't you bring my mittens, they're not called gloves Mummy they are mittens and you are not my friend and I am going to sob and snivel and whine all the way home past many people we know and complete strangers and when we get home I will refuse to take my own shoes off even though I am totally capable of doing so and then I will collapse in a heap and demands hugs and just need cuddles because I am only 4 after all . By which point I am sick of the sight of him (until the cuddles anywayand feel awful because I haven't seen him all day).

Phew good to get that off my chest! Great thread OP. All together now: "this phase will pass"

Mine's out of this stage now but the following worked for me:

Don't respond to the whiny voice, tell them to use their nice voice. Nice voice always gets a response, whiny voice doesn't - they message soon sinks in
Screaming and shouting: don't respond. Tell them to "ask in your nice voice" or best voice, whichever phrase works for you. Wait till they get their nice voice and respond

ROlling round on the floor screaming: well, learned this off my dad, stand around humming to yourself and look at your watch, enquire "finished yet?"!. Once they finish ask them what they want, if they are crying still, cuddle and say "now you are calmed down, what is the matter?"
Don't ask questions that require logical answers, by the time they are whinging they've lost the ability to be logical, they are pure emotion by this stage, they don't really know what they want, once they calm down they will follow your lead at that point, so keep clam. It is permissable to say "I'm not having this silly conversation, talk to your teddy and see what he thinks" or variations thereof as well as "I don't really have time for this, I'm off to do X" where X will interest the child more than a tantrum.

School pick up: get a oat based biscuit down them and some water, half this crap stems from sheer tiredness and dehydration.

Never ever reward whining or hitting etc, my firends child ONLY gets attention if she whines, if she is playing quietly she gets ignored so she tends to whine. Her brother gets a biscuit if he kicks his mum...so guess what he does a lot of? My DD got a biscuit if she asked with the word please.

You have to be consistent, take deep breaths, be prepared to wander off, unless they are in physical danger a child can be left for some time to calm down, I often wandered off to another room when DD was acting up, in the end she'd get bored and join me out of sheer curiosity.

and be prepared for the upscale of them trying to push all your buttons to get attention...it does get worse before it gets better, but it does get better

Came to this topic to see if there was any good advice about this very subject - DS is only 3.2 but can be whingy, challenging and downright horrible sometimes - the crying everytime he's told 'no' is particularly wearing. He also asks for the same thing again and again even if we've said no the first time. I find it difficult to deal with as DD was very rarely like that. Have got some good tips so thanks for that.

My 4 year old has been awful recently, but then so have I. I spoke to her pre-school about it last week (where of course, she is delightful) and they said that it was all about control and I should give her the opportunity to do things herself or choose between two things (both of which are palatable to me). The past week during the day has been better, but nighttimes are now awful. She can be up for up to 3 hours a night having a real tantrum because she can't go back to sleep/wants to sleep in our bed/wants us in her bed/whatever. If you give in to any of these demands, she starts wanting one of the other options. And has a tantrum about it. At 3am.

Of course this hasn't helped the daytime mood for either of us, but I do feel as though the problem has shifted a bit. Last night I used bribery and that worked well. The Easter bunny has its uses. I still feel :( about it though, so I know where you are coming from.

I exercised mine like a labtador yesterday and she fell asleep on the sofa aat 6.30 and slept all night until 7.30

I did have to spend three hours in the park though

labrador

Can I join the FFFOPC? (fucking fours fucked off parent club - credit to DestinationUnknown!). I thought it was just me being a pants parent! So nice to know it's not just me, and there's ways to get around the mind reading tantrums etc. Plus a newborn, I'm getting a wee bit frazzled. We had a tantrum last night because someone shut her in the kitchen cupboard at school, which isn't what it sounds like and is a game she loves and happily went back to today!

So just wanted to update - really thought I reached breaking point with DS this weekend. Screamy shouty mummy, worst I've ever been. Even had words with DH about it :(
Monday, he and I had the best day together. He came close to whinging a couple of times but I tried really hard to keep him calm and we did fun things and had a great day. Long may it continue.

I want to join, but DS is 5 next week!

It's like he has PMT.

If he's still 4 when you joined the thread, you're in :o

Here, have some .

thanks :)

The teacher said today that a lot of them are like it, worn out and need the holidays.

For the record, DS is hitty, and moody, cries at the drop of a hat, pedantic, bossy.... but not usually.

'you are not kind to me, you are very lazy!' because I didn't get the batman game out when he telepathically requested I did :)

chin chin.

DD summed it all up today.

'I'm not happy. You're not doing what I want.'

You and me too babe.

It's all about control. It's tough.

I want to join but I don't think I can even type out DD's behaviour today without smashing something!

OH MY GOD THE CRYING!

She walked into some polystyrene earlier, you'd have though she'd impaled herself on a metal spike judging by her reaction.

We then moved swiftly on to an hour long tantrum which resulted in her being put to bed at half 5... I could no longer cope.

Here SmallShips, you clearly need some .

So far, DS is happy today (I'm GMT-8 so it's only 2 pm here).

Have four yr old. Agree with everything said here. And have felt very low at times also. And then some suggested humor and bing - it sorted things out to a great degree. For most of the absurd things she moans about I up the stakes, like contemplating having roast spiders dipped in chocolate for dinner. Or baked foot. Things like that- works a dream!
Don't feel like a bad parent cause you loose your temper, you are not your dad. Feeling bad is a good sign, means you are thinking in the right way! Now, have a glass of wine and remember, if it is mentionable it is manageable.

I read 123 magic last night. Shall start implementing it today!

May have to get that book, too. My 4 3/4 dd thinks she knows it all since she started school and absolutely has to have the last word. This drives me quite insane for some reason. If I lose the plot and shout at her she goes all tearful, making me feel even worse.
Sigh.
My 2 year old is a complete dream compared to dd1. Never thought I'd welcome the terrible twos as a nice distraction to the argumentative 4 year old!

Oh I am so glad to have found this thread. My 4yo DD is lovely, funny, and a delight most of the time. The rest of the time she is a monster. A really horrible one.

When she is at her worst she whines constantly, complains about being horribly injured when someone looks at her; she bites and hits her little brother; and argues about everything.

I'm fed up of shouting and it doesn't work anyway - last night I shouted so she and DS (2.5) both screamed solidly for 80 minutes. DH came home and I burst into tears and went away leaving him to try and calm everything down. Even worse, he managed it.

Ahh so lovely knowing I'm not alone! DS had tearful strop this morning because he couldn't get his socks on and I would not come RIGHT NOW!!! to sort it out. As I was in the shower it's not surprising I did not leap, naked and covered in shower gel to rush to His Highness's aid.

However once out of the shower, to be greeted with furious tears and red faced shouty accusations, I did manage to defuse the situation by asking if it was an emergency / did we need to call the police / was there an elephant loose in the house / was there a naughty monkey smashing up the living room etc etc. It turned him from total strop to laughter v quickly. Give me a medal someone, this is a breakthrough for me! Normally I would just shout and put him on the step to calm down.

II

(clearly a medal)

How are we today? Mine didn't do any crying today and played nicely on his own in his room after he had got ready for school. He's probably saving his energy for later on....

My dd had a meltdown about how I should do her hair this morning - as every morning. She has thick, long, very smooth hair but insists she wants to have her hair the way her best friend has it. I can explain until I'm blue in the face and frothing at the mouth that her best friend has very different hair (beautiful afro hair [apologies if this is the wrong term but don't know how to describe it]) which has a different texture and will actually stay in a kind of snail loop or whatever... [really not familiar with hair related terminology )

All of the above they can be so unreasonable and worse when tried. DD gets progressivley worse toward the end of term so this week and next is meltdown zone! Yesterday we had an hour of whinging because I put out her clothes and she wanted to do it herself. When I put them back and said ok you get them yourself - she said no I want you to help me, so I help but then she wants to do it herself!!!!Arghhhhhhh give me strength.

OP, part of the issue is that you think your DS sees you like you saw your father. And you feel the pain of that little girl so it all feels more heightened and tense. Whereas the real situation is:

You are a lovely mummy with a lovely little boy whom you adore and who is 4 and therefore a total pita at times.

Take your own feelings of loss and sadness out of this because from what you've said, your DS is not having loss and sadness. He's just a normal boy who drives his mum mad from time to time.

My DS is 2.5 and prone to freaking out because I cut his bread into squares not rectangles. I shout at him when it's particularly bad. But I am not feeling like you are about it because I know I am a good mummy. I know you are a good mummy. The issue is that you don't know you are a good mummy.