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Welsh Learners Chat and Support Thread

463 replies

alexpolismum · 03/03/2012 14:50

Diolch cardibach for the idea!

I'm just getting started as a learner so that's my limit in Welsh so far!

This is where we can chat, use our Welsh as we are learning and give each other help/ advice/ encouragement, etc. Smile

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mejon · 04/04/2012 20:44

It is yng Nghymru. eatyourveg - dwi yng Ngheredigion (see what I did with my treiglo there?!) Quite a bit of snow up in Gwynedd and Powys I think but thankfully it hasn't stuck here in our little bit.

I have to admit I could no sooner explain mutations than fly to the moon. I must have learnt them in school but that was an age ago. I couldn't tell you why something mutates and when tbh. I just go by sound - if it sounds right then it must be ok. Not much help if you're learning the language though, sorry!

Re. 'gyda' and 'gen' - now to me 'maen't ddrwg gyda fi' sounds clunky and awkward though it is correct. I'd use 'gen' and your grammar book explaination eat makes sense as my mother is North Walian (although I was born and raised in the south, I use a lot of NW words).

alexpolismum · 05/04/2012 14:46

Diolch mejon

well, I don't want to sound clunky and awkward. I want to learn Welsh that's actually spoken. I don't want it to be correct but odd, like the proverbial "the pen of my aunt" sounds in English.

Just a pronunciation question here: Is yfed pronounced "ee-ved" or "uh-ved"?

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mejon · 05/04/2012 21:06

Oh I hope you don't think I was being critcal alexpolismum - not my intention at all and blummin heck you've done spectacularly well to learn so much in such a short length of time.

The phrase only sounds awkward as I would tend to say 'gen' instead of 'gyda' but I think it is what DD would be taught in school and what most south-Walians (Hwntws) would say I think. I'll stop now incase I dig myself a bigger hole!

Yfed is prn. uhved Grin.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

alexpolismum · 06/04/2012 09:58

Not to worry, mejon, I'm taking it in a constructive way. I have noted down that "gen i" is more northern and "gyda fi" more southern.

Does your dd speak Welsh at school? My children only have me to speak English to them, everyone else around them, and of course at school, it's Greek. I try really hard to get them to hear as much English as possible, to give them a really good base with their English, as just speaking to me might leave them with a limited vocabulary.

Yesterday, my dd said to me "Mummy, I'm mynd-ing. Are you aros-ing?" it was very funny. She's obviously been listening to me saying things, and listening to the audio Welsh lessons I have downloaded, and has picked up a few words.

More pronunciation queries, I'm afraid! I know you say yn araf and yn ifanc with the stress on the first syllable of the adjective, but does the stress change to the second syllable in yn arafach or yn ifancach (arAfach and ifAncach)?

It may seem I have learned a lot, but I haven't actually tried to speak to anyone yet, it's all just written. In a speaking situation I might get stuck and not remember all these things!

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mejon · 06/04/2012 14:35

Prynhawn da!

Grin at your DD's mynd-ing and aros-ing! Apparently when I was very little and thought I thought I was being very posh I once said to my mum 'I'm going to the dre' (tref-town) with the 'dre' prn by me as dray rather than dreh. I think you had to be there.... Wink.

Yes, DD1 goes to a Welsh school - strangely although she spent her early years with me at home speaking only Welsh to her (speaking English just felt wrong), she is very reluctant to speak it with me now though she will automatically switch to Welsh with my parents. I try to stick to speaking Welsh to regardless of how she answers me. She's only 5.5 so there's plenty of time for her to change.

I think you're right about the stress changing in araf and arafach / ifanc and ifancach. No idea why though!

alexpolismum · 06/04/2012 19:16

Noswaith dda!

Yes, do stick with speaking Welsh to your dd. I speak only in English to my dc, wherever we are, no matter who might be able to overhear. If they speak to me in Greek, I "refuse to understand", if you know what I mean, and insist they speak English. It's working, and they very rarely try to speak to me in Greek, and if they do, generally they laugh and immediately switch languages before I have a chance to say anything.

Thanks once again. I don't need to know why the stress changes, only that it does. The chances are that if the stress changes in these adjectives, it does in others too, so I will try that out. A lot of the time there is no "why" in languages, or the "why" doesn't matter, sometimes it's just part of the music and harmony of a language, and if I can get a feel for that, it will make the language come alive for me and I will be able to learn it better. That takes time, though!

What I really want is to be able to speak to someone. Perhaps I should put up an advert "Welsh learner looking for someone to talk to in Welsh on occasion. You don't need to teach, just talk!" Smile

Pasg da i bawb! (although here it's not Easter for another week yet!)

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eatyourveg · 08/04/2012 08:17

Pasg hapus i chi hefyd

alexpolismum · 09/04/2012 14:15

Sut mae!

Mae hi'n heulog yma heddiw a nes i goginio gyda fy mhlant, sydd ddim wedi mynd yr ysgol heddiw. (We made) teisen Pasg a mae fy merch yn awyddus i fwyta fe. Mae hi'n i dweud e pob dwy funud!

I hope that made some sense! What's the 'we did' form of nes i ? I have learnt nes i and nes ti but I realise I only know how to say it for those 2 persons. I haven't heard the others yet. I don't even know if that's how it is written - I am going by what it sounds like!

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eatyourveg · 09/04/2012 16:12

Wn i ddim ond dwi'n meddwl effallai "rydyn i'n wedi gwneud?"

Dunno but I think perhaps "we made"

alexpolismum · 09/04/2012 17:54

diolch eatyourveg. Is this the dyn ni I have heard on radio Cymru? I have been trying to work it out. Is dw i wedi gwneud the same as nes i neud then?

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mejon · 09/04/2012 20:27

Noswaith dda. Bwrw glaw yma drwy'r dydd. Ych a fi!

(Ry)dw i wedi gwneud and mi (w)nes i neud are the same. For 'we made' you could say mi (or 'fe') wnaethom ni gacen/teisen or rydym wedi gwneud cacen/teisen

If memory serves me right
wnes i / I did
wnes ti / he did
wnaeth hi / she did
wnaeth e / he did
wnaethom ni / we did
wnaethon nhw / they did

saying 'nes' etc. is fine I'd probably write 'wnes' if I was writing something official or proper but verbally or writing something more casual I'd say 'nes' etc.

alexpolismum · 10/04/2012 06:25

Bore da!

Dw i'n gwybod bod y glaw ddim yn hyfryd, ond wyt ti'n i rhoi e i fi?? Mae hi'n bwrw glaw yma heddiw!

Diolch yn fawr mejon. I really appreciate it.

Heddiw bydda i'n astudio Cymraeg. Mae fy ngwr ddim yn mynd i weithio heddiw, felly mae fe'n gallu chwarae gyda'r plant a bydda i'n gallu darllen.

This probably means I'll have hundreds more questions by this evening!

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katster06 · 12/04/2012 16:33

Hello,
If you?re on facebook
wondered if you might be interested in this new page / group ;

Bilingual Babies - Welsh / English Promoting Bilingualism from birth
forum to meet other parents trying to learn welsh / teach it to their children

Links to information / advice / tools etc
www.facebook.com/pages/Bilingual-Babies-Welsh-English/331304263597629

groups for parents learning welsh / with bilingual babies etc 



Best Wishes
Katie

eatyourveg · 15/04/2012 08:27

Pasg Hapus i chi alexpolismum yn Groeg

alexpolismum · 16/04/2012 20:02

Diolch yn fawr, eatyourveg. I was away staying with the inlaws for Easter, and had no internet, so it was very nice to come back and see your message. Smile

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r3dh3d · 24/04/2012 21:14

Sorry to butt in but does anybody have any links (or books, even, I'm desperate) for a beginner, which are entirely North Walian? This is going to be hard enough as it is. Confused

cardibach · 24/04/2012 21:24

Noswaith da, alex ! Dw i'n dysgwr a dw i'n angen mwy o ymarfer. Dwi'n hoffi'r thread. Sut wyt ti'n dysgu Cymraeg yn Groeg? Ac, hefyd, pam? Rwy'n credu ei bod yn wych! Mae en galed enough yn Cymru!

alexpolismum · 24/04/2012 21:26

Hello r3dh3d

try the northen course from here

I've been doing the southern one and it's quite good. I assume the northern one is too!

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r3dh3d · 24/04/2012 21:31

DYF alexpolismum.

Will have to get some headphones, I think. Our Mothers' Help is from Anglesey and she will DIE laughing if she hears me, poor girl! Grin

alexpolismum · 24/04/2012 21:32

Sut mae, cardi !

Dw i'n gwneud cwrs Say Something in Welsh, a hefyd dw i'n darllen beth mae pobl arall yn ysgrifennu. Nes i ddysgu llawer o pethau fel hynny.

Pam ydw i yn dysgu Cymraeg? Hmm. Dw i'n i hoffi fe, wrth cwrs! Roedd fy nhad yn dod o Gymru a dw i'n teimlo bod a sort of link with my roots.

A dw i'n hoffi dysgu ieithodd!

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cardibach · 24/04/2012 21:41

Dw i'n casau dysgu ieithoed! Ond dw'i eisiau siarad Cymraeg oherwydd dw i'n teimlo Cymraeg. Mae fy nhad a fy mam yn Cymraeg ac mae fy nhad ynsairad Cymraeg. Dw i'n byw yn ardal cymraeg iawn, felly mae rhaid i fi yn siarad Cymraeg. Mae fy merch yn dwyieithog, dw i'n falch iawn!

As to your pronunciation query - the stress in WElsh is alwys on the penultimate syllable, which is why it moves in the examples you give. THis gives Welsh its 'sing song' quality and if you do it in English makes you sound a bit as though you have a Welsh accent. Buggers up iambic pentameter, I can tell you! (English teacher in Wales).

alexpolismum · 25/04/2012 06:10

Grin @ iambic pentameter! Thanks for the tip, cardi. Now, if there were a tip for the pronunciation of y...

dw i'n teimlo Cymraeg hefyd. Dw i ddim yn gallu i esbonio fe, dw i ddim yn byw yng Nghymru, ond dw i'n teimlo (a strong bond). Mae fy mhlant yn dwyiethog hefyd, dw i'n hoffi gwrando! Ambell waith, maen nhw'n defnyddio hanner gair Saesneg, hanner gair Groeg, mae'n doniol iawn!

I have learnt several foreign languages, so here's my tip to you - the best thing to do is close your books and just get out there and start using the language. Don't worry about whether you are using the right tense/ mutation/ whatever. It doesn't matter. Those things come with practice. Whether by typing on a forum or by speaking (and actual speech is by far the best way to learn), you need to be producing your own sentences. That is how it will stick in your mind. Put Welsh radio/ tv on in the background to listen to. And when other people speak to you, listen to their turn of phrase. I have made loads of notes from other people's posts on here, and although I don't have a lot of vocab yet, it's helping me to get a feel for the structures of the language.

When I first started learning Greek I used to say things to myself in Greek like "Now I'm brushing my teeth/ time to put my shoes on/ what shall I have for dinner" anything really. Just trying to use the language.

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cardibach · 25/04/2012 21:48

Good tip, alex. I just lack a bit of courage, I think... DD tells me to get on with it, she says I know it so I should say it!
For y, I believe it is an uh sound unless it is in the last syllable when it is more of an i sound (like Aberystwyth - Aber -uh- stw-i-th alhtough most people not from round here make both those an i sound, so possibly not the best example!).
Dw i'n mynd i'r Eisteddfod Rhydlewis dydd Sadwrn, felly bydd rhaid i fi defnyddio fy Cymraeg. Mae fy merch yn cystadlu - bydd hi'n canu. Wish me luck!

alexpolismum · 26/04/2012 12:51

pob lwc, cardibach ! Smile

A pob lwc i dy ferch di hefyd.

Efallai un diwrnod bydda i'n gallu mynd i'r Eisteddfod hefyd!

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r3dh3d · 27/04/2012 09:18

Quickie - welsh for Sorry? We're coming up with Sori here, but we're not sure if it's a bit Wenglish. Blush