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what are the reasons for NO smacking?

695 replies

hermykne · 17/11/2005 13:27

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

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Bugsy2 · 17/11/2005 16:47

You don't have to talk endlessly to small children. One sentence offering the choice & a consequence for not complying should be enough and then after 2 warnings take action.

zippitippitoes · 17/11/2005 16:47

I've never seen someone smacking a child who wasn't angry..

and does anyone smack their children who wasn't smacked themselves?

there are some many alternatives which have to be used by most adults disciplining children that it doesn't seem necessary to smack

I haven't been convinced that it is effective

hunkermunker · 17/11/2005 16:47

Aloha, I do agree that there's not much point trying to explain things to a very young child. Someone I know explains the reasons for confiscating a toy their child's been throwing and has done since she was about 11mo.

I think some children, faced with endless tedious explanations from parents in stupid baby voices about how it's "not nice to frow the wickle toys coz they are vewwy heavy" are probably thinking, "Oh, FGS! Just smack me and let's get on with something else"

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

laligo · 17/11/2005 16:47

ok, i am hysterical - i find it hard to even read this thread because smacking upsets me so much.

ALL the reasons everyone has said - it doesn't work, it sends the wrong messages, it is not "loving" to hurt a child.

but also because my dad smacked in a cold, planned, almost ceremonial way, he was unfair (would smack for mistakes) and worst of all he got a thrill out of it - he was a paedophile (i should say is a paedophile, i don't see him any more).

i would beg anyone who thinks it is ok to smack to please never smack a child on the bum, ever - it is horribly humiliating and don't forget it is an erogenous zone and closely connected to the sex organs. i'm sorry if this is upsetting for anyone but it's no coincidence there is such a spanking/sexual titillation connection in our culture. i thinking smacking on the bum is deeply confusing for a child.

also as for yob culture - purlease QofQ and others, do you really think the worst yobs are those who no one has ever laid a finger on, who have been brought up in some "namby pamby" liberal way with no smacking? of course not.

smacking and discipline aren't the same thing and it is not true that if we just brought back smacking, caning, birching, oh why not bring back hanging too, everyone would start to behave. i agree kids need discipline and that standards are slipping - but that is far more because of the lack of boundaries, people not being able to say no to their kids, not being consistent etc.

uuuurrrrghh i hate the thought of anyone smacking anyone, let alone a child.

oh and QofQ, you often post about your kids getting a smack. you also say you warn them twice. well then it really isn't working, is it? - you warn them and they go ahead and have the smack - you could pretty much say they choose it. perhaps because they want the attention, or they get into a cycle where by provoking you to smack them, they know they've had an effect on you? it's not healthy when what they want is kindness, love, firm boundaries and a feeling of safety.

sorry looooong post and i know i'm not pulling any punches (so to speak) but - i think smacking is sick, "loving" smacking all the more so.

motherinferior · 17/11/2005 16:47

Crunchie, I seriously do believe it would be a slippery slope for me. As it is I claw desperately at the top of that slope with my fingernails

SackAche · 17/11/2005 16:48

Zippi - I use the naughty step too..... didn't learn that from my parents.

aloha · 17/11/2005 16:48

I also think the idea of a 'loving, calm smack' is the creepiest, most revolting thing I can imagine. Ugh.
Which leaves us with the furious, end-of-tether type smack, which is just wrong.
So no smacking for me.

hunkermunker · 17/11/2005 16:48

Laligo

Mytwopenceworth · 17/11/2005 16:49

Smacking is not my parenting choice. My sister smacked her child occasionally when she was younger - that was her parenting choice. My boys are turning out wonderful, my niece is turning out wonderful! I respect my sister's right to discipline her child in the way she sees fit, and she is the same with me. And I understand that it is also important to understand the difference between controlled smacking in consistant discipline and hitting in anger or beating your child.

However, I feel that smacking would tell my child that it is ok to smack. To a young child, the parent is 'God', what you do is what should be done. Through smacking as a form of discipline - 'no you don't do that, that is naughty' a parent teaches their child that you hit people when you are cross with them, or they are doing something you don't like.

So then the child goes and hits someone else, after all, how can it be wrong, Mummy does it. At which the parent goes 'hitting is naughty' . Cue very confused child who has just had first lesson in do as I say, not as I do. Just like yelling at them 'BE QUIET' at the top of your voice!!

Also, the trust a child has in its parents is awesome. I personally feel that to hit my child is a betrayal of that trust. I am the person whose job it is to protect, I find that conflicts with the idea of physical punishment.

I was hit as a kid as discipline, not beaten, you understand, but I always flinched when my dad made a sudden move. He could be sitting on the sofa and suddenly raise his arm, maybe to stretch or something, and I would recoil. I do not want to see my kids flinch from me, it would break my heart.

I also don't think that smacking is any more effective than other forms of discipline. If it was, then you would only have to smack once and thereafter the threat would be enough! That is not the case, so smacking is not a better alternative. So if it is not better, why not use other methods that are not violent.

Some people say that there are some situations that you do not have time to use other forms of discipline, like what? I can't think of anything where you don't have time to do anything other than smack. If they are in physical danger then if you can get to them in time to hit them, you can get to them in time to pull them away. Voila, no longer in immediate danger and time for other methods!

So I guess it comes down, really simply, to those who think it helps and those who don't!

aloha · 17/11/2005 16:49

And MI, I don't believe you, you know. I think you don't smack for the same reason as you don't do lots of other things, because you think it's wrong.

hunkermunker · 17/11/2005 16:50

Again, Aloha, agree. The well-planned calm smack used as a parenting tool - ick.

What if the smack was a pinch or a hair-pull? If it was the same amount of pain inflicted as the smack you'd use?

SackAche · 17/11/2005 16:50

Laligo - Yes you are hysterical. And I'm really sorry for what happened to you..... but seriously.... are you comparing smacking a child to Paediphile behaviour?

I am so shocked by your post..... think I'll just take a back seat and read a few other responses to you post.

aloha · 17/11/2005 16:51

Chilling post laligo.

The boys who killed James Bulger were hit all the time.

Socci · 17/11/2005 16:52

Message withdrawn

SackAche · 17/11/2005 16:52

Oh for goodness sake. I wa ssmacked all the time and as far as I can tell I've never sexually abused or murdered a child.

motherinferior · 17/11/2005 16:53

Oh yes, Aloha, I believe it's wrong; but I also think it's worth being honest about the context in which it's wrong, IYSWIM. I don't give my children even 'just one' smack because I don't want to hit them - but I also want a taboo on hitting them at all.

HRHQoQ · 17/11/2005 16:53

"you also say you warn them twice. well then it really isn't working, is it? - you warn them and they go ahead and have the smack"

I also said that I rarely smack them these days - as its' rare to even get to the 2nd warning - usually warning number on is enough, actually naughty step before that is usually enough for DS1 these days. Smacking isn't the only punishment we use, we use a vareity, and DS's both know that different things incur different punishments. Smacking is the very last resort.

I'd like to see the reserach that says all of the "worst" yobs (personally I think they're all as bad as each other but that's a different thread) were all smacked as children, and that all of the children that haven't been smacked grow up to never become yobs (or only a little bit yobbish)

tortoiseshell · 17/11/2005 16:53

my mil realised smacking didn't work when my bil as a child calmly hit her back and said 'I can hit harder than you Mummy.'

hunkermunker · 17/11/2005 16:54

Do people who do smack have partners who smack too? And do all the non-smackers have non-smacking partners?

tortoiseshell · 17/11/2005 16:56

Dh is very against smacking, and in times of REAL stress with the kids, where he's been utterly frustrated has echoed MI and Prufrock - that he's really glad we have a no smacking policy, because it's that sort of time when you could really abuse your own policy, and smack them unreasonably, or harder than you would normally.

Have got to go, but just can't imagine hitting a child. laligo - sorry to read your post.

HRHQoQ · 17/11/2005 16:56

yes DH smacks - probably about the same amount as I do (not very often) - and he was whacked with a belt when younger (oh and had his fair share of "3's" in the headmasters office with a cane a school).

QueenVictoria · 17/11/2005 16:57

Any discipline incorrectly meted on occurance of a mistake or accident is wrong.

Socci · 17/11/2005 16:57

Message withdrawn

crunchie · 17/11/2005 16:58

MI I know what you mean. I also know how it worked for us, when yes I was at the end of my tether. However I am learning to be a parent as I go on, and I am trying to get better. I think I do far far better with older children than young ones as I find I can communicate more.

Aloha I am sorry you feel that way, I understand why and cannot say I happily smacked away, you can see there were very few instances when I did smack. I know as a parent I should always be in control etc etc, but we're not all perfect and I have made mistakes, but I don't think the odd smack I have given my kids as part of disipline is the worst thing I could have done.

The calm, loving smack that I have used (not that I would say I was particularly calm or loving at that point) have been after 2 warnings, and then understanding that if they continue they will get a smack. I don't think it is a calm, loving smack tbh, but it certianly isn't designed to hurt.

beatie · 17/11/2005 16:58

"beatie, I'm not trying to say you are airy fairy but there is no way on eath I would stand in a car park because my child wouldn't get in a car seat. You are giving in to what they want, which isn;t going to stop the behaviour at all.
I can accept that the car park might be too busy to leave a two year old outside. I don't see why you couldn't push her down? A two year old isn't that strong. "

I think I explained that I could not physically force her inside of her carseat AND do up the straps - I only have two hands. What in your opinion is it that my daughter wants when she (on two occasions) has decided to be stubborn and non-compliant? My guess is attention and for me to spend time wrestling with her, reasoning with her is giving in.

Carrying her to the side of the car park and facing her against a wall, or facing her against the side of the car whilst I stand and wait for her to be compliant brings with it the quickest results. Not as quick as if she'd just got in the carseat happily in the first place but in this situation I don't have any other option, as it is unsafe to drive the car without her strapped into a carseat.

I think it's a bit bold to judge my parenting techniques on one grave example that I offered the original poster. Are you saying that your children are so perfectly behaved, 365 days per year that you never feel exasperated by them? If so, I think you should take over Jo Frost's job as Super Nanny.