what are the reasons for NO smacking?

[hermykne]

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

That is the 1st time I've ever parped! Wow it felt good!!!!

waay off topic now!

did anyone say that posters on this thread were child abusers?

[zipping along in roller skates trying desperately to look like a teenager, even wearing a lovely vinyl jumpsuit] Oh yes I'm so wiiiiiireeeddd for sooooouuuuunnd!

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Look - I don't believe anyone on this thread is a "child abuser" and I am genuinely sorry if this is how my comments were taken - what I am saying is that I believe smacking is abuse, and technically it is - some definitions of physical abuse:

Includes hitting, slapping, pinching, or kicking. Also includes controlling behavior through corporal punishment.
www.intra.ccgh.com/AutomatedCAMH/gl.html

Physical abuse is abuse involving contact intended to cause pain, injury, or other physical suffering or harm.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse

Now if you smack a child and it doesn't cause pain, how does it discipline them?

I have seen my best friend smack her children - I love her to bits and would certainly never call her a child abuser. I just don't agree with her methods of discipline. The fact that her boys can be a complete nightmare at times and my dd (roughly same age) is on the whole very well behaved just reinforces my view that there are better ways of doing things. Her youngest boy in particular also hits her back (he is 6) - now where did he learn that hitting is ok?

My daughter knows if I am unhappy with her because of the tone of my voice and because I explain to her why. She takes it seriously when I tell her off. I have never had to smack her. My parents never smacked me or my brother either.

I'm not going to post any more as I think this is getting out of hand - there will always be pro and against and I guess never the twain shall meet.

I shall PARP. (First time, and I guess I should have done it before posting on here at all!)

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I was the person who has had to wrestle my daughter into her carseat but I never said I bruised her in doing so... I'm not sure anyone said that.

Caliguia tbh I don't think some people are seeing a difference to quote

BonyM
Sorry - whether it is "controlled" or "un-controlled" I still believe smacking is physical abuse.

In some ways it's worse if it's controlled (pre-meditated)- then it's a case of "well I'm going to hurt you and you deserve it" rather than "oh god, sorry, I just lost it for a minute, I would never deliberately hurt you".

and

Smacking is abuse. No argument.

Saadia
I think when it comes to smacking there is also the humiliation factor to consider. I would think if I smacked/hit ds it would be like humiliating him, using violence to control him and leaving him without any dignity.

I know all the pro-smackers say they do it in a controlled way but I must say I find both angry and calm uses quite chilling.

Enid
I still think it is deluded to think there is a difference in context. A whack is a whack, not a 'tap' or a 'loving tap', you have hit your child, end of story.

and

I think smacking is stupid and lazy

and

I think all pro-smackers are deluding themselves. Sorry. and yeah say I am a smug cow if you like. Actually I did smack dd1 once when I lost my temper and I felt so horrible about it I just can't imagine how you can all live with yourselves.

Twirlaround
Parents who smack nearly all smack in a less than totally calm and rational way.

This is out of control behaviour from the parent in a physical sense and as such is a very bad example to set - the parent is the role model of the child.

Smacking is like the arms race - it will work for a short while and then you need a bigger weapon and smacking becomes no more effective than shouting. If you don't shout at your child then when you do - eg they are about to run under a car - they will REALLY TAKE NOTICE.

I also think that everyone should respect the dignity of others - small children included - and smacking is hardly dignified.

I think it is obvious from the experts in child behaviour on TV that smacking is ineffectual and uneccessary.`

However this is interesting reading other veiwpoints, I am not a perfect mother, some are better, but equally some are worse. I try never to beat myself up over anything tbh.

My new Christmas Hit is called 'Love Thy Children' and will feature me singing on a twirling pedestal surrounded by children of all nations and colours (to show that I am not a racist) and they will be singing Praises to God as backing for my song. I think it will be No.1, God himself has dictated it and He says that it will be No.1, so who am I to doubt?

BonyM I do appreciate you last post - I was creating min while you wrote your. I know you don't see people like me and QofQ as child abusers, that's why I can debate this without steaming.

My frustration with you and perhaps others, are the statements like

Smacking is abuse. No arguement

Well actually there is an arguement as we have all put forward. We don't smack to hurt, usually just to shock and it is certainly not the only disipline we use.

Oh flippin' 'eck!

Of course I can see the difference - it's like anything, there are degrees of severity.

Smacking a child does not make you a child abuser, but smacking is, by definition, physical abuse, which can be mild or severe. Smacking your children occasionally and not causing injury does not make you a child abuser, BUT it is still mild physical abuse. And I can't see that it is more effective than other, gentler methods.

Sorry - I was going to parp wasn't I? I really will now.

Sorry crunchie - x-posts. Honestly, no offence meant at all. These things are bound to get a bit heated though.

If you take the legal view then smacking that leaves a mark is abuse a"mild smack" is not..

i believe those who say that they discipline with mild smacks and i admire their self discipline but still don't like the method myself and i think Bloss did once say that if the practice of smacking meant that some children were abused then she might be convinced that although she used smacking and others do in a controlled way then perhaps that was an argument against it. I believe it is an argument against it myself.

I know everyone is parping but just wanted to add a few points.

I can see the difference between those parents whose smacking escalates because they use it in the heat of anger and those parents who use smacking whilst exercising self-control. I still don't think any type of smacking is right and the fact that we have people analysing the degree to which they inflict this method of punishments shows why the law is so sketchy and could benefit from an outright ban on smacking.

What on earth is 'reasonable chastisement'?

I've been quite relieved to read comments from people saying they don't allow smacking as a form of punishment because they know they would be the type of person to use smacking when they were tired and angry.

I am probably the same. I have wanted to smack my daughter but I have made it such a no-no in my head that I know I would never cross that line.... just like I manage not to hit my husband if/when he winds me up... and just how I manage not to hit queue jumpers/drivers who park on pavements or anyone else who might wind me up when I am having a bad day.

There are many people out there who don't support a smacking ban because they worry about 'that' parent - who is having a bad day and resorts to smacking their child once - being hauled off to prison. But, if there are many of us who admit to having those days and those moments, in yet we're able to exercise control because we have made smacking taboo, then surely there would be many more who could exercise that control if smacking was banned and attitudes towards it changed.

The only difference I see between the mother who punishes with a cold shower and the mother who punishes with a smack, is society's history and acceptance of the latter. As punishments go I don't see either as being worse than the other.

This is definitely getting heated and there seems to be no meeting of minds at all.

Just to clarify, I certainly don't think by any stretch that the posters who admit to smacking are child abusers - I think that is one of the worst insults you can hurl at someone and I certainly wouldn't use that term lightly.

But I do think that smacking is unnecessary. There are millions of ways of disciplining children and to me smacking seems like the least effective in terms of bringing a child to understand how the world works and how they should model their behaviour.

IMO, issues of "naughtiness" should be discussed and dealt with logically. Speaking from my own experience with my dss, both under 4, and at an age where thay may not be able to fully understand the repercussions of their behaviour smacking would be just bewildering for them.

"I don't believe anyone on this thread is a "child abuser" and I am genuinely sorry if this is how my comments were taken - what I am saying is that I believe smacking is abuse,"

Ermm - sorry how can you say that you believe smacking is abuse and then say that you don't think anyone on this thread who smacks is child abuser???

Message withdrawn

saadia, I agree there is no meeting of minds, but we can agree to disagree can't we.

QofQ both you and I know we are NOT child abusers, but that SOMETIMES people who smack are. I think BonyM has explained her feelings on this one. And although some posts are a bit harsh as it feels at times everyone has lumped us together with the mum or dad who wallops their child for no apparent reason, and obviously does that on a regular basis. I know that it isn't meant like that (and you know that too, so behave or I'll smack your bum )

Yes crunchie we can agree to disagree. We all want to raise our children in the best way we can and I do believe that everyone on this thread is doing their best with their kids and with the best of intentions.

PMSL Crunchie - ooo I'm scared now

(don't mean to sound patronising)