what are the reasons for NO smacking?

[hermykne]

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

Im sure some people do but its not a clear line between those that smack and those that dont IYSWIM.

I can understand smacking when angry and regretting it, but I can't understand it as part of a discipline process when not angry

Ds might have done something wrong - that does not necessarily make me angry, although it might make me despondent!

I can't think of examples now - it is so long since I last used a smack as a form of discipline (or even threatened it). As others have said, now that he is 5, other forms of discipline are more effective.

I am also interested in people commenting about the "humilitation" of smacking. That has always puzzled me - don't other forms of discipline that people areadvocating as altenratives 9which incidentally, I do use), such as naughty steps or confiscating toys or taking away a treat also involve an element of "humiliation"??

I know when we started suing the naughty step, it really distressed ds to be sent there. Now he couldn't give a damn , so it is no lnger an effective threat/punishment - but the idea oflosing pieces of pasta does work, as does his "buffalo" (ie him) slipping down the firsge away from "golden time" (even though we have never defiend golden time in a hom centext).

laligo in response to the question "so tamba and custy i am genuinely interested - where do you think that kind of sexual perversion does come from? "

i would say - i don't know. however i dont think you had to be whipped when a kid to enjoy whipping - of course there are the arse plugs like horses tails - no idea who thought that one up - the hoof shoes to match too.

then theres the shitting and pissing on people - i mean please - who finds that stuff nice?

what about standing on someone in high heels?

no idea where any of that comes from.

i think laligo - that its a link in your head becuae of what happened to you. i dont think there is a link between that and sexual abuse in general or the liking of it when older.

indeed - is there a link between changing nappies and those men who dress up as babies? should we stop changing nappies becuase of this?

i understand most arguments and respect everyones opinions. i have mine. they are different to most. i fail to understand this argument even whilst disagreeing with it - but as you said previously we have a difference of opinion and we are both entitled to it.

horsetail arse plugs?

i swear it must be true i saw it on the telly.

hehehehe. Thought you were harking back to the horsey dressing up thread that resurfaced a couple of weeks back

ok fair point(s) custardo. you do not have to experience something "sexual perversion-esque" as a child to have that perversion as an adult.

that doesn't mean there isn't a connection in this case. it of course doesn't apply to everyone it happened to either, and i'm happy to say my sex life hasn't been ruined as a result like the poor man described earlier, although as you say the awareness of the link will always be there. i think the worst thing for many people is an uneasiness with their parents in later life, perhaps because of that awareness, or maybe just because of the lack of respect hitting embodies.

interestingly, i did once have a boyfriend who wanted to be weed on. no idea why but humiliation certainly seems to be involved doesn't it? - just a variation on a theme. his dad was a hitter and i know when young his dad used to hit his sister for wetting herself so i think there may be some connection there.

Message withdrawn

oh and as harpsichord carrier has mentioned there is apparently loads of empirical evidence and academic studies.

oh and as harpsichord carrier has mentioned there is apparently loads of empirical evidence and academic studies.

oops. far too tired off to bed.

Message withdrawn

I was smacked a lot when I was a child by my mother. I grew up resenting her big time. We are a lot closer now, but when I look back, I think about the things I was hit for, one of which was "letting" the dog eat her dinner (the dozy bint left her plate on the floor, and I wasn't evn in the room at the time!!!) For that, I got my head smashed against the wall, amonst other things. I grew up being very fearful of my mother.

However, I remeber that my gran only smacked me 3 times, all of which were when I pushed her to the absolute limit, and after countless warnings. I grew up respecting and being very close to my her.

The difference is that my Mum used to dole it out for anything and everything. I still hate her for it years later.

I am not saying I would choose this form of discipline for my kids, but I wouldn't condemn anyone else who does.

I'm just dreading DS being naughty around my Mum in the future. She has already brought up the subject of smacking. I would be mightily pissed off if she laid one finger on him after what she subjected me to as a child. Mind you, when I was a kid, my mother was very unstable, and she is a lot better these days.

Sorry, rambling......

I think it is telling that a lot of parents who smack would not smack a child in public.

This distinction is not good for the child, as consistency in discipline is important...so why hold back in public if you think you are right to smack?

I think it is far less acceptable to smack a child than to hit an adult - and how many of us think it would be OK to smack or be smacked by dp?

I think that the public v private issue is possibly a bit of red herring. The appropriate method of discipline varies according to the situation, and I think that many forms of discipline have to be amended/adapted for when you are outside of your home.

I did read this thread last night and was interested that there was little mention of the age of children where smacking is used.

I still think it is deluded to think there is a difference in context. A whack is a whack, not a 'tap' or a 'loving tap', you have hit your child, end of story.

So Enid, physically forcing a struggling toddler into a car seat is not the same as lifting a toddler into a car seat? You're using physical force to get your child to comply?

Oh blimey - physically forcing a child into a car seat doesn't usually involve them getting hurt (unless being done in a way that is designed to hurt).

It's quite clear in my mind - a child is smaller, weaker, more vulnerable. How can it be right to inflict physical pain on them? As has been said earlier in this thread - if hitting an adult is deemed unacceptable in law, how on earth can it be acceptable to do the same to a child?

I have never had to smack my dd1 (dd2 is only 8mths so not at an age when any discipline is appropriate). I have found other methods much more effective - ie. ignoring bad behaviour, withdrawing affection. She is a very well behaved child.

Smacking is abuse. No argument.

Physically forcing a child into a carseat will hurt as much as a light tap. At least one mother on here has admitted to bruising her child when trying to get her into a car seat. So if a tap is a whack, then lifting a child into a seat must be the same as forcing them and leaving buising.

There is a difference!

But a tap wouldn't hurt (if it really was a tap) and therefore wouldn't have any effect.

In addition, I think there is a big difference between forcing a child into a car seat (because you are trying to protect them in the event of an accident) and accidentally hurting them, and deliberately hitting your child because you don't have either the self-control or imagination to discipline them in any other way.

I never understand the "tap" argument as a tap is not a smack

and someone said that a smack is a punishment because it hurts, a tap doesn't hurt

a smack which leaves a mark will if taken to court lead to up to 5 years imprisonment

Surely it's the intent in which it's carried out - we all hurt our children sometimes, whether it's treading on their feet or walking into them. It's the message 'I've done something wrong, so Mummy/Daddy is going to hit me' that I think is all wrong. Nothing to do with the relative pain/force. Clearly you have to sometimes push a child into a car seat. But you are not saying 'you have done this so I am going to hurt you.'

I am glad to see this is rambling on

I think most of it has already been said, with Bloss making some really good points.

As you all know I am in the pro-smacking camp - FOR ME AND MY KIDS - I am shouting this becasue I also believe that other people should not go down this route. People who perhaps could not smack in a 'controlled' way - I am not going to say 'loving smack' as I think is a bizarre way to explain things. I also believe a lot of people who smack, do it in anger, hate, and lash out at their kids. They use smacking in a totally inapropriate way. These people ARE abusing thier kids. I AM NOT.

I decided to ask my kids last night about smacking, DD2 (aged4) said that I have never smacked her! she cannot remember me ever doing so. DD1 (aged 6) knows it is the worst of the worst, but also cannot remember ever being smacked. I also asked what would the WORST punishment be, if they had been really really naughty. DD1 thought being locked out in the street would be awful (!) DD2 thought being sent away. So basically for my kids, the worst type of punishment would be to withdraw from them. Hence we use the step (No we don't lock them out anymore - actually I did shut dd1 out in the garden once when I was at teh end of my teather and she had ON PURPOSE weed on teh floor for the 3rd time! That was 3.5 yrs ago and I needed time out!)

Anyway what I am saying is that smacking when done as part of a structured, above all FAIR disipline system can work at times, and if that included in public then fine. However when used to lash out, combined with irationality and anger smacking can and should be seen as abuse.

Now please stop confusing the two, the pro-smackers on here have all (to a person) said they are the first type of smacker, not teh second.

I think when it comes to smacking there is also the humiliation factor to consider. I would think if I smacked/hit ds it would be like humiliating him, using violence to control him and leaving him without any dignity.

I know all the pro-smackers say they do it in a controlled way but I must say I find both angry and calm uses quite chilling.