what are the reasons for NO smacking?

[hermykne]

I AM CURIOUS to know, folling the other thread, as my dd is so bold at the moment nothing gets thru to her, even putting her in a time out room for 2/3mins, shes 3. she will keep on screaming and then hit something or push something over.
can last 40mins and no matter how you go over the matter with her when shes calm, she doesnt seem to learn anything,
and i suppose smacking will not make her understand either...
but what does smacking create or instill in behavourial patterns in yours opinions?

I think this is a good thread - on the whole very civil.....apart from being told that we're "deluding" ourselves

Gosh....

QoQ i had to laugh when i saw you had parped yourself early on in the thread - I knew you would be back lol

I cant be bothered to type out a long post but basically agree with QoQ and Custy.

Also dont quite see how smaking on the bum leads to sexally abnormal people.

so tamba and custy i am genuinely interested - where do you think that kind of sexual perversion does come from?

where does sexual perversions that include toe sucking, breasts, ear sucking, legs, etc etc come from???

I haven't smacked either of my two as I have never felt I needed to and have got the result I wanted using other methods. There was once when I would have really loved to have smack DD but stopped myself and am really glad I did, I would have felt dreadful and would have felt that I'd destroyed the trust we have - she knows that I will never smack her. I've watched friends smack their children and it not made the slightest bit of difference. I was only smacked once by my mother when I was younger. I was about 11 and when she smacked me I fell over and hit my head badly on the door frame. She had done it out of anger and fustration and felt awful afterwards. I have no idea what I was smacked about but remember the rest of the episode clearly. I'm not proud of myself for the way I've ended up shouting at DD though. DH doesn't smack either and on the whole both the children are fairly well behaved. I certainly wouldn't condemn someone for smacking, that's their choice of parenting, but I personally do not see what it achieves.

DH has just read this over my shoulder and said there have been a number of times when he's been tempted to smack DD but is glad he hasn't as he feels the only thing it would have achieved is damaging himself. He reckons smacking is the easy way out. It amazes me how we can agree on everything like this but find it so hard to find a name for our children we both agree on !!

Another smacking thread?

I have smacked mine in the past although I can't remember the last time I did any of them as it is so rare. I don't disagree with it unless it is beating the crap out of them, which is just not on and shows the parent needs help to use other coping and disciplinary strategies.

Not sure where this sexual link comes in - can't see it myself and I don't believe it comes from your everyday type of smacking. Must be something far more sinister involved for it to leave an impression like that on a child.....

I really have no idea.

I just cant see how getting a smack on the bum could be seen as sexual.

I guess when it is used along with other types of sexual abuse then you could because it would be smacking with the intent of getting some perverted pleasure from it.

But just a smacked bum, is in no way sexual.

This is hard to word right and i hope you understand what i mean. I am very sorry for what happened to you and your reaction to smacking is understandable because it was associated with sexual abuse. So smaking for you has associations of sexual abuse because thats what it means to you, thats what you went through. But i dont think it would cross the minds of someone who didnt have those experiences as they havent got the history there to assosiate it with. So it would be just a smack on the bum with no sexual attachment.

I doubt this makes sense as i am trying really hard not to upset or offend you. I am truly sorry for what you have experienced xxx

It feels wrong to me. If I ever resort to smacking I will feel as if I have in some way failed as a parent that I can't find some other effective form of discipline.

Older children can be reasoned with so the need for smacking should not arise - some other punishment can be used.

The idea of smacking utterly defenceless younger children who may not understand why something is wrong seems illogical to me.

This thread is in reserve for some "me" time!

Will post on Saturday night when I have some "Drop" time!

(Uh,Oh! Everyone makes mental note not to visit mumsnet after 10 pm on Saturday night!!)

fair enough - i don't think i'm making my point very well although i still think there is a risk and i think the association of smacking children with a sexual part of the body is inappropriate and always has been...

but don't worry tamba i'm not dreadfully upset. it was a bad experience and of course it can't help but inform my views when it comes to smacking - and i do feel strongly - but it is long in the past and i am ok - thanks for your concern though.

Message withdrawn

actually corporal punishment of children does lead to the sexualisation of spanking
did a dissertation on it, tons of evidence for it
it's a whole industry

If smacking is such an effective form of discipline, why isn't it recommended or advocated on the many parenting programmes we see on tv?

Maybe we are talking about a different kind of smack on the bum?

I am thinking of an over the clothes tap on the backside but if you are talking about a pants pulled down over the knee smack then thats totally different and i can see your point a little better although i still disagree with it

oh! well there we are then, thanks hc

OK a couple of points before I go

How many of us that DO smack pull pants down and smack a bare bottom?? I know I certainly don't

2ndly - we live in a world were we're expected to treat our children EXACTLY the same as adults, and where, in my opinion, a lot of discpline of children has gone extremely wishywashy (and I'm not just talking about parents who don't smack - many people who don't smack discipline very well and have well behaved children to boot). People don't like anything "old fashioned" and that's how many people see it. And because if this thread is anything to go by - it would cause a massive outcry as all of us -pro-smackers are accused of child abuse.

weeeelll - hitting people is abuse, in the eyes of the law, and the only exception is hitting children.

i expect one day this anomaly will be rectified.

btw though i never implied that if you hit your kids you are guilty of abuse in the sexual sense - just that there can be a link.

sorry i know there is boxing and all that as well but i mean in the normal way of things.

Im with you QOQ on this. And i dont pull down pants etc either before smacking.

Dida nyone see Little Angels where the little boy (4 year old Daniel) was stealing food from home and the neighbours? There was a scene in there when his two older sisters went upstairs to his bedroom, smacked him really hard, so he cried, mother went upstairs, also smacked him. When she watched it on the video footage she was inconsolable. Comment from expert was 'smacking achieves nothing.'

I also do the three stage - don't do that, if you do that again then this will happen, consequence happens. I try not to shout un-necessarily (obviously I fail lots on this, but I do try), and the consequence is carried out if need be, whether it is losing computer time, losing a toy, going to bedroom, sitting on naughty step. Yes it upsets my child, but they are clear about the action that led to the consequence. The difference is I haven't laid down a foundation that hitting is an ok consequence.

I know a mum whose Stage 3 is a cold shower. She did this once and has never needed to repeat it...

I am a very regular poster but have changed my name because I am slightly embarassed to admit this.

To address the smacking/sexual issue: my parents never smacked me (I remember being quite proud of this as a child!). I remember when I was about 7 or 8, reading a book where one of the characters had been naughty and was given "a good spanking". For some reason (which I couldn't identify at the time) thinking about this gave me a nice feeling and I suppose I fantasised about having "a good spanking" myself. I used to read this paragraph over and over. I know now that the thought of this made me sexually aroused. As an adult now, I still find the thought of this arousing. However I don't consider myself to be "kinky" at all!

Anyway, aside from this I have never smacked dd and never had any need to. At 7 she is, and always has been, a very well behaved child. I believe that smacking a child is abuse and there are much more effective ways of disciplining. In my opinion smacking is ignorant and brutal.

I used to be mortified when my Mum used to hit me in the street-it is the ultimate humiliation.

One thing I have found with ds1 is that most things that I say or do, he will imitate. When he is angry he says a lot of the things that I say when I'm angry ("You're always creating extra work for me") so I have become very careful now, speaking firmly but not loudly and not saying anything even remotely hostile as I know he will use it right back, and I'm sure that the same principle would apply to smacking.

It's interesting to see that the adult in charge often does something they feel in retrospect was wrong..explained as I did lose my temper, I wish i'd thought of better way of dealing with the situation ..I shouldn't have done that..now we are the adults with all our experience but we have done the wrong thing at times..how do we expect our children to always do the right thing when they get angry?

Isn't there a more effective way of teaching them to be less rash and control themselves?