wife has taken baby away

[softfocus]

Not too sure if this is the right section to post this but here goes anyway.

My wife and I have been together 6 years and had a lovely little 10 month old wee girl. Over the last few months my wife has "cooled" with me e.g. wanting to sleep alone and though I've found that difficult I've coped realising (or perhaps hoping?) that she needed her own space and all her energies were going to the baby. She has been breastfeeding and has only been separated from her when I take her for walks. She had taken 9 mnths off work but has extended it to 13 months and I know she is dreading going back but we are in the very fortunate position of one of us always being able to look after our daughter.

Since Christmas, she has been spending more and more time with the baby at her mother's house often spending as much as 8 nights away. I am happy with her spending around 3 nights away a fortnight but every time she goes to her mum's saying she's only away for 3 days,she keeps extending it.

I miss my wee girl SO much when she's away from home .

Last Thursday I went to work expecting to see them both on my return but whilst I was at work I received a text saying they had gone to see her mother as she needed "time to think about things". I was upset but not angry.
Since then I keep asking when they're coming back and never get a straight reply. I can't sleep/eat and am worried sick.
Since yesterday she hasn't been answering my texts or calls even when I have asked is she and my daughter ok.

Any advice would be most welcome .

Thank you.

What a tricky situation.

I would take it with a pinch of salt that your wife has seen a GP so don't be at all surprised if you do find out, later down the line, that your wife does have PND.

Hang on in there and don't let your MIL bully you.

Softfocus, I hope you are well. I was very pleased to read you managed to communicate with DW and MIl but yet feel that you are treated extremely unfairly and I am feeling very angry for you. I'd still get legal advice as you are made hostage of this situation and I am would be wary of not doing anything that could potentially backfire.
Hopefully soon you will be able to understand the roots of her behaviour. Lie it has been said above, the fact she has seen a GP does not rule PND. The diagnosis for PND can be very difficult to make.
You can not put up with situation for very long and you ought to make it clear (in a non aggressive way obviously).
Maybe your wife need time, but how the hell can you be expected to be understanding if you are given no explanation and treated like a nothing?
I hope things will work out for you x

Like it has been said above, the fact she has seen a GP does not rule out PND.
oops typo, sorry!

If you can afford it, legal advice is very different from instructing a solicitor to intervene. It is not always immediately obvious how certain behaviour would be construed in a litigation context, you need to go about things in the right way. Your partner need never know you have spoken to a lawyer as long as you are careful about correspondence. I took legal advice recently and it made me feel so much better and more in control.

Just about to say if DW only wants to see you with others present then you will just have to go along with it but saw you have already agreed to it.

TBH I think there is another side to this.

You have mentioned your anger a couple of times. Your calls, texts & emails all seem a bit stalkerish esp as you are keen to get your wife away from the people she seems to want to support her - meeting up in a cold park with a young baby were your terms - not hers.

I think you really need to examine your attitude & behaviour towards your wife

I think you are handling this very well softfocus. I hope that you are OK, I really feel for you.

I hope the visit went well yesterday.

I have to agree with finallygotaroundtoit.

If your wife has asked for time, then tbh you need to give it to her. You don't have a legal or imho a moral right to see, text or speak to your wife if she doesn't want it. Consistently not replying or replying only with the bare minimum would suggest she doesn't. Maybe ask for her clarification if you are not sure? If she says you can only see your baby with others there then I would advise agreeing to that. Seeing your baby should always be more important that having control over when or where you see her.

I would also suggest not going too strongly down the PND route, you have already put the idea forward, and despite what others are saying above, if she is adament she isn't suffering with it then unfortunately you will need to take her word for it - she IS in the best position to know ime. She may well have other legitimate (albeit possibly confused) reasons for needing this time out. Don't forget she is also surrounded by people who love her and will be watchful of her mental health, almost certainly even having PND in mind now.

One last thing, I'm not sure how old your baby is but I am fairly sure that a baby is likely to respond very differently to a webcam image of you to the real you. I'm not sure how old she is, but if she is old enough for you to think you might get some sort of a response I very much doubt she would forget an involved father within weeks. Which is all a clumsy way of saying please try not to let that worry you.

I would suggest the best thing you can do over the next few weeks is scrutinise you own behaviour within the marriage, and possibly within previous relationships, with a hope to finding and fixing any problems should they be there (not saying they are), rather than jumping to what can be a very easy excuse - your wife's mental health. Things are rarely that simple.

'You don't have a legal or imho a moral right to see, text or speak to your wife if she doesn't want it.'

Yes motherducky, but they have a child and he does have all these rights to see her! Or rather, her mother doesn't have the right to withdraw these things.

I think the wife is unreasonable not to expect constant calls etc when she has taken a baby 3 hours away - if she is in the depths of PND and can't rationally see this, surely her mother ought to?

softfocus, I hope things settle down and your get some proper contact with both your wife and your daughter.

if she is in the depths of PND and can't rationally see this, surely her mother ought to?

I suspect the mother is quite liking things like they are at the moment as she is getting her daughter and grandchild all to herself.

Would it be a good idea to send your wife and child a big bunch of flowers and a little note? It might be helpful.

softfocus, I'm really sorry that you're dealing with this. It must be terribly hard to be separated from your child like this with no idea of when you will be able to see your daughter next.

I'd strongly recommend you get in touch with Families Need Fathers. They're not the kind of extremists you tend to find at Fathers 4 Justice. Rather, FNF will be able to help you to find non-confrontational ways to maintain your relationship with your daughter. Your daughter is very young. At that age she needs to be seeing you regularly even if each occasion may only be a few hours.

That your wife wants some time apart must be difficult for you to understand but you need to accept it - she's an adult and she has the right to make that kind of decision for herself. But your daughter does have the right to have a relationship with both her parents unless there are very definite reasons why that wouldn't be a good idea. Let your wife have the space she needs but that cannot be at the expense of your daughter.

There are, fundamentally, two separate issues here. One is your relationship with your wife, and the second is your relationship with your daughter. Although one may influence the other, these are different things to be approached in different ways.

Good luck.

i disagree that SF has been over the top with calling etc etc

this is his child!

how would any of you feel if the father of your child had taken her away and wouldn't let you see her?
the guy must be worried sick about them both, and about what will happen in the future, and it's totally reasonable for him to phone and try and find out what's going on

i think getting MIL on side is a good thing, I know it's hard to do, but if she trusts you and if you can keep a good relationship with her then you have a hell of a lot more chance of seeing your wife and daughter.

this is heartbreaking :( i do hope you get it all sorted out

Whilst the Op may not make demands to see or speak to his wife, he should be making demands to see and speak to his daughter.

Children have a right to know both parents, properly. I would also recommend Families Need Fathers.

I agree - if DP took DS off to his parents I would be calling and emailing constantly til I got to see my baby!

Why does your wife need to go to her parents to get some rest?

To the posters who say this man is being unreasonable - how would you feel if your partner vanished with your child and wouldn't tell you when they were coming back and made it difficult for you to see your baby and you could only get through to your MIL? If this was a woman posting there is NO WAY that anyone woudl criticise them for trying to find out when their partner would be coming back - or, alternatively, if they werent planning on coming back, how they could access their child.

I am a strident feminist and dont normally say this - but seriously, cut the anti man bullshit.

OP - Im so sorry you are going through this. If your wife has effectively left you - or is having time away - youi need to have access to your child. And it seems very unfair that you are having the kind of access imposed on you that is normally offered to an abusive partner ie. only with the rest of the family there.

I wonder if your MIL, as others have said, simply doesn't understand why a man would want a role in bringing up a child - there seems to be something going on here you are not privy to.

What about writing to them both - saying that you are deeply sad, want to help your wife, will respect her right to live elsewhere but want fair access to your child.

Is there someone who could intervene here? A friend/ family member on either side? It seems that particularly if your wife has PND then the situation could continue to spiral.

Be calm when you see them, but firm. Dont ever walk away from a planned meeting again - it could be used against you. Good luck and Im sorry you are going through this.

Oh my,i'm overwhelmed by all the helpful words from you . Thank you.
I went to see them on Friday and spent 2 hours together .When i left I was in floods of tears as my wee girl began crying.
I avoided questioning my wife.

I also went on Saturday.Again,meeting them and playing in the park.This time though I did notice a change in my daughter ,when she met me she put both hands out and kept holding on to me and cried when i would take my hands away.(when i mentioned this later to my FIL ,he just said,"oh ,she's learning to walk that's why she did that...she hold hands when walking" !) .
After a couple of hours together,I asked my wife if I could take our girl to see my mum for an hour ,she agreed. So we parted and I went to my mum's.Withn 5 mins there was a knock on the door and it was my wife wanting to come in. I spoke to her outside and reassured her that the wee one was ok and that if she felt uncomfortable I would just have 30 mins alone with her and my mum. She disagreed and then called her Dad who arrived in a couple of minutes. God,what a mess !

I invited her and her dad in ,she went to seek with my mum and the wee one whilst I spoke openly with her Dad in another room. She has always been close to my mum but didn't speak to her. His views are quite traditional:dad works/mum is the homemaker and couldn't really understand why this was hurting me so much. I did tell him that I have never been ambitious job/money wise and to me the most important thing I could ever do in life would be a hands on loving father. I said that what was most difficult at the moment was the lack of any communication from my wife and no response AT ALL about our future. He agreed that was difficult but that my wife needed "more time" . I did say that I realised that but there were practical things needing sorted soon too e.g. I have been offered more hours @ work but unsure to take them as it would break the schedule my wife and I had set up for looking after our daughter with our time shifts.
(while this was all going on,I realised that my MIL was "out of the loop" and thought she would be thinking the worst and worrying so I took the time to go outside and call her just to reassure her that the baby was fine and we were talking to which I got the response,"this is making me ill " !

Later went to MIL's house and played with daughter and spoke a little to my wife. When i asked if i could see them again the next day,I could tell she was't happy so I said I'd let her have some peace the next day but would webcam with them the next evening.

In the later afternoon I texted her to ask when I could webcam,no reply.so after an hour had to call landline,spoke to MIL and then got to webcam.
This was at 5:45 and at the end we agreed for me to say "good night" on the webcam later. SO i texted at 8pm,no response,left it an hour,then called landline,her sister told me my daughter was in bed and that my wife was resting. Again, i felt upset that I was being told one thing and then it was changed with no communication.

It's this lack of communication and changing the goalposts all the time that i find hard.

On a side note , I am concerned about the lack of emotional intelligence in my wife's family. Her father was put into boarding school when he was 5 and her mum has NEVER said she loves her,kissed or cuddled her. Her brothers and sisters have lived at home into their late20s/30s and now there was one sister living there who is trying to buy a flat and my MIL has often mentioned being bored at home. I guess because her role as the homemaker is lessening now.
Her overbearing methods with my daughter are maybe a replacement for her?
There are times when I am with my daughter in her house she actually follows from room to room,watching us like a hawk.And has often said things like,"you don't do it that way..".."oh men they're useless",Once while camming my wife began "walking " our daughter which was first,I congratulated them both and said,jokingly," well done!You'll be walking soon" to which my MIL shouted"no she won;t for another 4 mnths".Another time I brushed my wee girl's hair back to which MIl said,"WE don't like it like that,WE want it flat" .

Is just me being over sensitive or are those unreasonable things to say?

I know when my baby is there,that the MIL is constantly with both my wife and child setting the timetable for the day etc.
My wife finds intimacy/hugs etc hard to deal with sometimes and i am fearful that his attitude will be passed on to our daughter.

I have been in touch with the Fathers forum recommended and am going to try to see our health visitor tomorrow for a chat.

I do appreciate ALL replies here,even ones i don't agree with as it's always good to hear another perspective.

( a special thanks to waterrat : your balanced viewpoint was helpful )

I am going on the train again to see them. I am nervous again and last night even suicidal thoughts were coming into me .

I would appreciate in more advice/support or just thoughts.
Thank you.

Have you ever hit your wife or been emotionally abusive?

Would you consider an anger management programme as you have recognised yourself you sometimes have problems with anger.

No i have never hit my wife .
Of course,I would consider anything to keep our family.
My anger has come out of frustration and worry and only once in a blue moon. But don't most people get angry at some points in their life ?
The weird thing is in the 5 years up to our baby's birth,we NEVER even argued.

I wanted to clarify that point.

Anger management wouldn't be to keep your family but to help you cope better in these situations.

Clearly something is going on that only your wife can now provide an insight to. Suggest you consult a solicitor.

Also what are the mental Health issues?

There are always 2 sides to every story.

A common theme in abusive relationships is for abuser to try to isolate DP from support networks, use access to kids as a way to control DP, say DP has a mental health problem when they don't etc etc.
Abusers rarely view their actions as 'wrong' & often see themselves as the victim

None of this may apply to you at all softfocus but I do think you need to try to see things from your DW's view. Also why would MIL & DW be so wary of leaving you alone with your own child?

"finally" I have never tried to isolate my wife.In fact I have encouraged her to meet other mums we were in the ante natal class with but she would always refuse saying it was too difficult,that she was worried getting on a bus with the wee one etc. When she has been tired I have encouraged her to go back to see her parents.
I do not see myself as the victim.

MIL has not expressed concern about me being alone with my daughter and my wife ,when here, was fine with me going out with her or looking after my daughter at home. i think the fear of being parted is worry about what may happen to my daughter in the "big bad world". My wife is worried constantly that the wee one will have an accident.

onadietcokebreak, you said to the OP "you have recognised yourself you sometimes have problems with anger."

Where has he said that? He said he was angry, and I don't blame him.

If I was in his situation I'd be fucking furious. It wouldn't mean I had problems with anger.

IMO, I think your wife is sending very clear signals that she wants to end your relationship, even if she is finding it hard to express that. That's her right - PNC is neither here nor there in this instance.
You need to stop hassling her (because it will feel to her like you are hassling her) about your relationship. Stop trying to discuss it with her, she obviously does not feel able to at the moment.
What you need to do now is set up agreed formal access arrangements for your daughter. Arranging stuff ad hoc is just too stressful for all of you, mostly for your daughter. Tell your wife that you want to set up regular, defined visits, perhaps every couple of days during the week and for the day at the weekend. Everyone will know where they are and she'll have less of a leg to stand on if she mucks up the arrangements. Stop asking to see her on the webcam every night too - last thing anybody wants to be doing last thing whilst organising a tired, sleepy baby.

Nun,you may well be correct about my wife wanting to end the relationship and ,of course,that's her perogative.
I have been told I can "come any time" to see our daughter but,perhaps a more structured timetable would be better.

However,i do disagree about the cam thing. IF we have agreed to it (which we have) then we should stick to that.Of course,if things are difficult at the time with the wee one,I don't mind it being cancelled/postponed just as long as I receive that communication. Remember too that is is not my wife alone that is dealing with the baby,it is her mother too.