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Asylum seekers and immigrants.

255 replies

doormat · 10/07/2003 12:36

Carrying on from benefits-unfit parents thread.

Any views on this subject anyone????

OP posts:
pie · 11/07/2003 19:48

As this has been brought up a couple of times I thought I would like to explain that housing asylum seekers does not actually take anything away from the housing of British citzens.

There are an estimated 440,000 homeless people in this country, making up 184,290 households. Of these 118,700 qualify for rehousing by their local authority because they are unintentionally homeless. The remainder have usually breached their tenacies and so fofeit their right to LA housing. A further estimated 560 are sleeping rough. All of those accepted by their council get rehoused, and a recent govt charter aims for all famillies with children to not spend more than 6 weeks in a B&B before this happens.

Under the Housing Act 1996, the of majority asylum seekers are not eligible to apply for homelessness assistance and are also denied access to the housing register. Under the Asylum and Immigration Act 1996 most asylum seekers also lost entitlement to the most basic benefits such as income support, housing benefit and council tax benefit. When asylum seekers are offered housing it is usually accomodation that has been turned down by a certain number of council tenants.

It is estimated that to keep up with current demand, which is highest in London and the SE 90,000 homes will need to be built each year, as of 2000/01 18,000 units of social housing were built. Redevelopment in the capial is beyond the budget of most LA.

Currently there are an estimated 753,000 empty properties in this country, and of those 623,000 are in the private sector. So over 100,000 council homes sit empty.

As I said in my earlier post for the first quater of this year there are still remaining 12,010 asylum seekers currently here.

On this statistics and the restrictions placed by the 1986 Housing Act asylum seekers are taking homes from other people?

You do not need a permanent address, such as a tenancy in your name, to claim welfare, you can put a friend's address for instance. Even if you are 16 or 17 you can get welfare if you are homeless and unable to live with your parents (the usual criteria).

Also I would like to point out that under the Race Relations Acts of 1968 & 1976 and the Sex Discrimination Act of 1975 you can advertise specific gender or race if there is a vacancy, that can only be carried out by somebody of a certain gender or ethnicity, because of the nature of the work. These might include social workers or counsellors working with specific ethnic groups or lavatory attendants. I mean you want to employ a race relations officer that people from a certain community/race (say Paksitani) can liase with. You aren't going to get a very effective result if you employ somebody white. That is a the truth of the matter. Nor will you get the best support for people in need if you employ men in a shelter for battered women. Furthermore certain public sectors have a quota of ethnic minorities to recruit. The police have tradtionally been seen as a white male dominated profession and I personally don't see whats wrong with trying to correct that so that they reflect the society they are policing by specific advertising for ethnic minorities.

bossykate · 11/07/2003 19:49

oh and anyone who can't use the term "asylum seeker" without putting either "bogus" or "genuine" in front of it has totally bought into a completely media-factured, mail/express worldview that bears no relation to reality.

welcome migrants, bring your creativity, diversity, entrepreneurship, willingness to work hard, cuisine, dress, customs - please use them to enrich our lives here.

Enid · 11/07/2003 19:49

About 45 mins from Salis (waitrose food and home I mean)

bossykate · 11/07/2003 19:51

do some of you have the SLIGHTEST IDEA what life is like in Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan, sub Saharan Africa - the list is sadly far too long.

codswallop · 11/07/2003 19:54

(coddy slinks off taking her trivial thread away) See you there enid! she whispers..its undergoing a face lift at the mo

Enid · 11/07/2003 20:03

Ok coddy, Enid agrees, cringing slightly at the inappropriateness of topic, then filled with joy at the concept of a revamped waitrose...

bossykate · 11/07/2003 20:06

oh ffs! sorry to have interrupted your waitrose chat

pie · 11/07/2003 20:11

Also wanted to point out that asylum seekers who are given welfare don't get 75% anymore they get 70% and money is deducted if they are given food or meals through charities etc.

And I forgot to say that asylum seekers who are offered housing are given it on a 'no choice' basis. Meaning they go where they are sent and cannot turn down a property without losing any rights they have to housing. Also where as they will keep children with their parents no other family members are guaranteed to be housed together, such as a grandparent who has also applied for asylum.

The UK is also 8th in the EU intake of asylum seekers. So if the majority of asylum seekers aren't even coming to the UK and then have more restrictions placed on them here then other EU countries would someone like to explain the whole over-running soft touch knee jerk reaction?

Enid · 11/07/2003 20:27

sorry bk, crap I know, it just sort of happened, wont let it happen again

CAM · 11/07/2003 20:41

My ancestors are French Huegenots who came to England during the French Revolution to escape religious persecution, my dh on his mother's side is also from Huegenot ancestry (came to England only about 3 generations ago) so not only are we immigrants but our ancestors may have been related at some point. Since I am old enough to have voted in M. Thatchers referendum in the 70's and have always been pro-Europe I think of myself as a European anyway. My brother is married to a woman who was essentially a political refugee from Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe.....and his MIL has just gained political asylum here...so guess which side of the fence I'm on.

bossykate · 11/07/2003 20:45

cam, i'm glad you mentioned zimbabwe, because that situation completely gives the lie to those "bogus asylum seeker" arguments - everyone knows how awful the situation is there, but we are still sending people back. how crap is that?

WideWebWitch · 11/07/2003 20:48

Thanks Phillipat, I was about to look up the relevant section of the race relation act having read the post about job ads but you got there first. Jimjams, hmm, yes, you're probably right about Labour and image over truth/awful public services/public perception vs reality but Pie, fab job on getting the statistics and posting them to challenge some of the incorrect assumptions being made here. Tinker, sml's post was great, thanks for re-posting it. IMO The Daily Bloody Mail and its ilk have a lot to answer for. Enid at Babington and trustafarians, I lived in Notting Hill (well, OK then, Bayswater ) too for a while, ages ago.

beetroot · 11/07/2003 20:50

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OldieMum · 11/07/2003 21:01

The most dynamic countries, economically and/or culturally, welcome inward migration. Think of what the US would have been like without the huge inward migrations which took place at the end of the last century, and since. Migrants bring energy and new ideas with them - the scientist/artist/intellectual refugees who came to Britain and the US from Nazi Germany are an example. Countries which are hostile to migrants close themselves off from the chance to learn from other ways of living and thinking. We are not just doing people a favour by allowing them to come here.

beetroot · 12/07/2003 09:21

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Jimjams · 12/07/2003 09:50

Having read all this - and the stats- thnks for that- I still still still don't understand what the govt is doing. The facts speak for themseleves. Why are the govt encouraging the daily mail viewpoint?

pie · 12/07/2003 10:08

Its all about the votes though isn't Jimjams?
The media have made scapegoats, public opninion is easily swayed and the govt just goes along with what the voting public want to hear.

Given some of the views I have read on mumsnet I think that Britian is not as progressive and civilised as you or I would have thought. The govt know this and politicians will always try to save their own jobs.

beetroot · 12/07/2003 10:22

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pie · 12/07/2003 11:05

Beetroot, it makes me cringe to think that people honestly think that because the regime has changed in Iraq that it is safe or desirable to go back.

Boe wrote: "Just think it ironic that soldiers are still being killed over there when they are fighting to secure liberty for these people and they are coming over here!! "

I was reading this and it would seem that basic living conditons have actually gotten worse. Yes the Americans say that it is a logistical nightmare trying to organise electricity and water, but you have to take the point on board that Iraqis feel that as the Americans haven't drafted any actual plans on the restoration of power to the Iraqi people, that it appears that one regime has simply been replaced by another that, and the basic needs to the people aren't the primary concern of the Americans. Oil control is.

I wouldn't blame Iraqis for claiming asylum from the Americans.

Actually DH, who is as Yankee as they come, agrees He is a cultural refugee from the vast abyss that lies across the atlantic

donnie · 12/07/2003 11:47

pie, I agree it's is all about votes as far as Tony Blair is concerned. I can't believe I voted for him in 2 elections - never again.I still wish old Michael Foot was in charge...
This is an excellent thread, really interesting.I think it makes a difference if you have, as some of the posters here,been on the receiving end, or whose parents/relatives have been on the receiving end of racial abuse, then you truly know how awful it is.I'm not saying others don't understand it, only that to be involved is really humiliating. My dad, as quite a dark skinned half Indian, and me and my brother, received strong racial abuse in the 70s when I was a kid and the NF were going strong - it hasn't happened for years but I can recall specific occasions, even the exact words and faces of the abusers, involved - that's how deep it sinks in. The real problem is that half the time we say damning things about races without even realising it. I am guilty myself, I always slag off Americans but really I shouldn't generalise as it's the slippery slope.
Anyway at least we are able to discuss it in a rational and informed manner. There is a tv programme on some time next week which follows the fate of some asylum seeking youngsters which we should all watch, will check the details in Radio Times and post the info.

pie · 12/07/2003 12:46

Your right of course about slagging of Americans Donnie, and I apologise to anyone who did take offense. But I think loads of people are bonkers, yet this wouldn't ever stop me from wanting whats best for them kwim?

I should actually that its my DH who is the vast cultural abyss....

pie · 12/07/2003 12:47

I should actually SAY I meant!

pie · 12/07/2003 12:48

On the subject of old labour, I really miss Tony Benn, his kids went to the same school as me though so he was kinda like a local/school hero.

donnie · 12/07/2003 19:50

Tony Benn, now there's a real Labour man who we can relate to. I ask myself, what is this so called New Labour ? a different version of the Tories it would seem.

winnie1 · 13/07/2003 08:02

Thank goodness for voices of reason here. One of the better things about the UK imho is that it is such a culturally diverse place to be (although I realise that some pockets are much more so than others). I personally can't understand (and don't want to understand)rascism. It drives me crazy and I loathe that 'not in my back door attitude' that emerges everytime an immigration centre is proposed in an area. This country needs immigrants (whether one likes it or not) and we should give sanctuary to those in need. Imo it is that simple.

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