4 year old dd wants her ears pierced ... aaaarrghhhh

[WigWamBam]

I didn't really expect to have to deal with this so soon!

Both dh and I have agreed that if dd wants her ears pierced when she's 13 or so then that's fine - but she wants it done now, and she's only just 4.

I thought I could reason with her, but she has an answer for everything. The conversation went a bit like this:

Me: No, you're too young to have your ears pierced.
DD: J has hers pierced, Mummy, and she's younger than me.
Me: Well, it doesn't really matter if J has them. I just don't think it's very sensible to have them done until you're older.
DD: J's Mummy is sensible, she's a nurse, and she let J have hers done.
Me: I'm sure she's very sensible, but I still think you're too young. Sometimes other people do things that we don't like, and that's OK if that's what they have decided, but that doesn't mean that it's the right thing for us to do.
DD: If J's Mummy is sensible then that means she does the right things, doesn't it?
Me: Not always, because sometimes it hurts to have your ears pierced, and you have to know how to look after them.
DD: I'm sensible and clever though, so you can show me how to look after them. And I don't mind if it hurts; I'm very brave when things hurt. Anyway, Mummy, you haven't got your ears pierced, so you don't know. J has, and she knows, and it didn't hurt her.

And on ... and on ... and on ...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!

I'm not interested in whether it's right or wrong, I don't want another argument, but I need help to put my foot down and convince her ... I think I'm losing this one.

I did think about telling her that her ears will turn green and fall off, but somehow I don't think she'd believe me

just a warning if you are going to put a future age on it -
i promised my son then aged 5 after months of whinging that he could have a dog when he was 10.

he never forgot.

If it all comes back to "because I say so", then surely every other parenting decision comes back to the same thing? If any decision made by a parent is "because I say so" then what's the point in discussing things at all? Children deserve to have things explained to them, rather than just brushed aside with "because I say so".

My decision isn't "because I say so"; it's rather more reasoned and thought out than that statement implies. "Because I say so" doesn't teach my dd anything about making informed decisions, it doesn't teach her anything about reasoning with other people or having discussions with other people on equal terms.

I've already pointed out to dd that J's mummy does lots of things differently to the way I do things (she isn't allowed ice-creams on the way home, her mother doesn't read bed-time stories), but the fixation at the moment is ear-piercing, and 4 year olds are very good at selective hearing.

Calcium, I have never had my ears pierced at all, because if I had rebelled against my mother when I was young, she would have skinned me alive!

They have incredible memories when they want to, don't they Custardo!

I ran away from home to get mine done.
But I was 11. BF aged 9 had hers done and my Dad saudi no way - mutilation etc. so I very dramatically raided my piggy bank and took the bus to my Grandmothers - thinking she would understand. She put me on next bus back home. I had left a note saying where I was but Mum decided I was callign her bluff so called Dad home from work. THAT was the scary part - dealing with him!

Anyway - Mum overruled Dad (he stillhates ANY piercings 30 yrs later) as it obviously meant so much to me! But I was 11.

I reckon double figures at least. Personal opinion but any younger just looks cheap.

buy her clip on earrings she can wear for playing dress up (obviously not huge pat butcher type ones in case she insists on wearing them out!) mgiht be a good compromise, especially if she's jealous at seeing her friend with earings on? ...good on you for trying to explain things to your dd without just dictating, its a very noble thing! ds is only 1 and i already find myself shouting 'no!!! just don't do that for goodness sake!!'

Wigwam, Ive had this conversation with my dd too("everyone else in my class at school has their ears pierced") and I just said NO Im afraid.

Not read all of this so....
I had my ears pierced for my 16th birthday. I HATE babies with pierced ears. When they are old enough to make up there own mind and care for the piercings and earrings then get them done. 13-14 years old. Having said that newly pierced ears cause problems with health and safety issues re PE, so school holidays is best to give them a chance to heal.

That'll be school holidays no earlier than the summer of 2015, I reckon

WWB, I don't say, "Because I say so" to every discussion. I generally aim to give a calm and reasoned explanation why I have made a particular decision, and generally they accept that. If they keep arguing I will reiterate my reasons slightly more forcefully. If they keep arguing after that over pointless things that I'm not prepared to compromise on (ie no, you may not eat an enormous bag of Haribo 10 minutes before suppertime), then I say, "Because I say so". It's a weapon against pointless arguing for the sake of it, rather than a first choice option for me. But it def. has its place.

I've always rather fancied Danny de Vito's line as the horrible father in Matilda: "I'm big, you're small, I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it".

Frog- absolutely. It is only fair to give an explanation, but you certainly shouldn't have to keep on and on and on justifying yourself. "Because of the reason I gave you earlier" is sufficient, and then as a parent you have the right to refuse to discuss it any further.
I made the point earlier about not being fair to a child if you let them think that EVERYTHING in life deserves a detailed explanation. An example:
Me - Can I have 6 weeks off, please, boss.
Boss - No. You have used up your annual leave.
Or - Teacher - Copy down that paragraph on the board for handwriting practice, please
Pupil - Why? I don't want to, why do I have to?
Teacher - Because I said so
End of story. Do you see?

Not everything gets a detailed explanation, "No, you have used up your annual leave" is often the level of explanation she gets (although not on the subject of annual leave, obviously). "No, you can't put the cake in the oven because the oven is hot" and "No, you can't stick that pea up your nose because last time we had to go to the hospital" is quite often as detailed as we get. But that is still an explanation and not just "No, you can't put that pea up your nose, because I said so". If I say to her in that situation "because I said so" then I'm negligent: I'm not giving her the explanation that she needs, and because there's no reason why she shouldn't put the pea up her nose, then she'll probably put the pea up her nose.

I do take the point that not everything is negotiable, but even so, if a teacher gave the reason for copying down homework as "because I said so", I would consider that lazy. "Because it's important for your education", "Because it's part of your course work", "Because if you don't practice your handwriting then no-one will ever be able to read it and you won't be able to take your exams" ... anything but "because I said so". Discussing things is not always a question of negotiation; rather, it's a question of making information available to my dd so that she understands as much of the situation as she can, given the obvious limits of a 4 year old's understanding.

Actually, this thread is making me seem to be a namby-pamby walkover of an over-liberal parent who sees her child as an equal, and that's not really the case. I just believe that discussion is important, both as a reasoning tool and to teach a child how to discuss and debate things. We don't over-discuss or over-analyse things; this is just one question that has cropped up that discussion hasn't worked on - normally it does, and leads to a far more stimulating environment for my dd than always saying "Because I said so".

Although I have to say I love the line "I'm big, you're small, I'm right, you're wrong, and there's nothing you can do about it". I will ahve to save that one up for future reference

Flipping heck, that was a ramble, wasn't it!

Just caught onto this thread.

I HATE to see young children (girls and boys)with earings. To me it borders on neglect.Sorry if that sounds harsh but thats how I feel.
Young children no matter how intelligent they may seem have no concept of what having a piercing entails.They want them like they want barbie t-shirts and fluffy hair bobbles, becuase they are pretty.Those of us who have had them (I was 13) know it hurts and if it goes bad,which it frequently does,it BLOODY hurts.

I am afraid I have to go along with someof the other posters here.JUST SAY NO,END OF.

I do believe that we should treat children as intelligent little beings but somebody has to be in charge, for thier sakes.
I would not dream of entering an arguement with my daughter when she reaches that age (she is 20 mth).Even now she knows my word is final.My dh is much softer and she walks all over him.He doesnt see it as a problem and I say "Just wait till she is stood at the front door at 15 wanting to go out and get her naval pierced with her biker boyfriend" Make it quite clear now.

Sorry if comes over a bit harsh.Do feel quite srongly about this (as you may have gathered!!)

I have said no.
I am in charge.
I am not having an argument with her, we have had a discussion about why she is NOT having her ears pierced, but is still trying to wheedle her way round me - despite me telling her that I'm the boss, and that's an end to it.

My question wasn't whether I should allow it (I have no intention of allowing it) but rather how I handle the fact that she's like a dog with a bone on this one. I have never had to deal with peer pressure before, and my normal tactics aren't working this time. Luckily it's the school holidays soon and dd isn't going to be able to see J very often, so maybe she'll forget about it over the school holidays ... yes, I know, unlikely but it's my only hope!

Good luck!

I have all this to come.....