MN Little Italy 21

[BananaGio]

Ciao tutte!!

Blimey so many spelling and even complete words wrong I am sorry but I haven't had any sleep as I slept with dd and every time she rolled over I was on alert. Plus she vommed over the spondina and I had visions of her falling out !

Yes it was me Buch! LOL LOL LOL. How do you know Shelly???

btw thanks for Boden discount. Have already ordered the dds' summer party stunners (dd1 claims yellow is her favourite colour and i got her the broderie dress in yellow- it is gorgeous- i hope she doesn't change her mind until summer )

been swimming, then grocery shopping on my own!!! yuuuppiiee dooooo. feel very free as a consequence (so sad).

Hi everyone, sorry for the long absence. Tried a quick post the other day from the netbook and then fell asleep on the wrong bit of the keyboard, so it all got deleted.

The gist of that message was: many, many thanks for all the support and practical suggestions (including the offer of lending us some reusable nappies to try). It might be odd, but reading your posts did cheer me up a lot (and I do need cheering up these days- lack of sleep, hormones all over the place and BF problems do not a happy SG make).

Life in the SuiGeneris household has gone completely topsy-turvy since the arrival of babySG. I certainly seem to do nothing else apart from sleep, feed him and feed myself. As I think I said last time I posted (before the sleeping on PC incident, I think), things are going less than wonderfully on the feeding side of things- and have got worse! Baby is growing well, but the pain from BF is excruciating. Have been to see various BF advisers, but if anything things have got worse: on Monday I went to a charity-run BF cafe where the counsellor insisted the baby was latched on beautifully and I should let him carry on even though it was "a little" painful (I guess I was not actually screaming out, but it was not "a little" painful). SHe also suggested (and did) readjust his position while he was latched on. End result, come Tuesday evening the situation was worse than on Monday and had sore nipples on both sides. Asked midwives and health visitor for advice, tried to book into one-to-one BF clinic (which obviously was not running this week), went to hospital BF clinic yesterday (but the actual BF expert was away, a nursery nurse was standing in- lovely lady, trying very hard to be helpful, but did not actually help), last night was packed off to see GP as an emergency case with suspected mastitis. Fortunately I do not have mastitis, but may have thrush, so currently baby and I are being treated for that and I am expressing for 36 hours to give the treatment a chance to work and my nipples a chance to heal. Although when it was suggested I was delighted, as expressing is not painful while BF had become so unbearable I was crying through it, I am finding the actual experience fairly alienating, with poor DH doing all bottle feeds, cuddles, changes etc while I spend one hour every three connected to the pump. So DH is shattered, I am shattered and worried baby will forget how to suck at the breast and poor baby is I think suffering from lack of comfort sucking.

All of which is probably very boring for the rest of you- but I know some/most of you have/have had newborns, so you might be interested and might also have useful suggestions? Oh, forgot to say poor babySG has colic- the only way he gets to rest in the afternoons is if we put him in the sling and wear him around the house. Which is how I have managed to spend 30 mins at the PC: with a lovely (well, I am biased) baby strapped to my front.

Have not, of course, managed to catch up on the thread- have only got as far as Monday, so will not comment on conversations that are now a week old- but rest assured I am present in spirit if not in actual posts. Hope to be back in reasonable form soon.

Oh dear SG, your post made me want to hug you very very tightly (even better if you are wearing babySG in a sling, then he'd get a cuddle too).

I don't really know what to say about the feeding, it sounds awful, I don't know much about bfeeding but it really could be trush. All I can say for the time being, try to relax about the expressing, seriously. there's every chance baby will latch on again, and if not, you'll cross that bridge when you come to the water, for the moment you are getting some relief, and that's the most important thing, honestly. It is a bit alienating, but remember it's still your milk, for your baby

A couple of practical suggestions- what pump are you using? you can rent some "industrial" ones from NCT or the hospital whcih are very efficient and will prob cut down on the expressing time quite a bit.

re comfort sucking- what about a dummy? I know you are prob worried about nipple confusion, but tbh I am very dubious about that with dummies, I have seen dozens of bf babies with dummies, and if your baby takes to it, it can be a real life-saviour. My dds never wanted them

Colic IS a nightmare, I have been through that, sling is the only thing that will help you preserve a shred of sanity, unfortunately it's just one of those things... you've got to ride it out. it seems like it's never going to end... but it will. I promise!

also (reading between the lines) don't feel guilty about your DH being shattered. It's par for the course, you are new parents, being shattered is completely normal, trust me in a few months you'll be able to smile about these days.

I know none of this is remotely helpful... having been in a similar situation (minus bf woes...) i really felt like i was in a tunnel, in complete darkness, and i didn't believe anyone who told me it would get better. Most importantly, it didn't matter to me, because the here and there was too hard BUT, it did get better, in fact it got wonderful, and that really hard bit was incredibly fleeting.

Try to sneak in lots of skin on skin with your baby, even if not bfing... perhaps take a bath together?

Oh Sui- poor you. I don't know what else to suggest, I'm one of those hateful lucky ones who never had a problem with bf. I do remember the topsy-turvy feeling though- how can someone soooooo tiny cause so much upheaval!

Have you spoken to someone from La Leche League? They are truly lovely always, and even if they can't take the pain away, I think they are probably a bit more sympathetic than midwives/HVs etc who have to deal with bf issues as well as other things IYSWIM?

I do have a fair few FB friends who are qualified bf counsellors. I'm going to go and put a callout for them on FB and see if they can send me something useful for you, at least to keep you sane till you can see someone, which I presume will be after the weekend....

MM- the lovely Shelly (who is also training to be a bf counsellor) was a mod along with me on the old BC. I got to know her better with those pesky widdies on BC . (you know those grumpy old women who insist on things being spelled correctly- guess who the founder member of that most fvckety of groups was.....anyone you can think of, just a teensy bit outspoken????)

SG sorry you having a tough time there. Second what the others have said and don't worry about the expressing. Also DS had (and still does on occasions a dummy, never had any issue with confusion and was a life saver to both of us! Colic, I feel your pain. It's so strange I had forgotten DS had it (terribly) until I read your post and yet at the time I couldn't imagine a time when colic wouldn't rule our life and I wouldn't dread 4 when it used to start regular as clockwork! So my point is as others said, it will pass (I hated it when people said that to me- I remember thinking-yeah ok WHEN?????). Keep using the sling for now. I know there are a few things you can buy which are meant to make a difference medication wise (nothing worked for DS!)How many weeks is baby SG now?

oh, Sui, dont' worry, you'll get through it. I had mastitis twice, and had to express & throw away the milk for 2 days as I was so blocked (bleurgh the smell of gone off milk coming FROM me...). DS didn't forget me though, and although I didn't preduce as much as before (though maybe coincidental as he was starting on solids, I bf him for 11 months). I've used dummies with both of them, didn't want to with dd, but life/sanity saver in both cases. as others said, there are various meds out there for colics (both of them started around week 2) didn't really help and with DS we spent maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany nights driving around your area as that was the only way he'd stop crying (god, we must have looked a right sight to the friday-nighters partying around clapham!!!), at least by the time DD arrived I'd discovered wrap slings which are still the best buy for a baby IME (and still in use!).

MM: once again you managed to cheer me up immensely: thank you!

I am sorry to read that, at least until the beginning of the week, things were not good in Gva. I hope they are improving and that weekends, with DH about, cheer you up and set you up for a better week ahead. Cannot really offer practical suggestions- other than perhaps to see if there are book or other clubs that you could join to meet people in the same position as you? With all the international institutions aren't there bound to be a good few intelligent, well-travelled "trailing spouses" who temporarily find themselves without a job and circle of friends? Forgive the term "trailing spouse"- I do not mean it demeaningly- it comes, for me, from a brilliant book I read a few years ago by one such very bright woman.

Thank you also for the practical stuff: at the mo. we have two pumps, an industrial one rented from the NCT and an electric one we have just bought. The latter seems to work better (am connected to it now, so typing one-handed)- though not as well as the one I used in hospital...

Have pleaded with DH, who was extremely anti-dummy (why are so many Brits so anti?), and we have finally bought one but have agreed that we will use it only as a last resort (i.e. when baby is fed, changed, warm enough and when rocking, walking, singing, sling etc have failed to settle him). Got to use it today and it is indeed a life-saver.

Had not thought of bath together- does it not have to be too cold to be comfortable for a grown-up? Sounds lovely though- will def try....

Typing one-handed takes ages- and had to stop halfway to settle baby and give him his bottle- so have only just seen all the post 5pm messages. Thank you all- immensely- it does help to read that it will pass.

Buch: thank you- any advice would be extremely welcome.

Gio: baby will be 3 weeks tomorrow, and we are giving him some drops- some anti-wind and some lactic ferments which are supposed to help... We only started the latter yesterday, so fingers crossed they will help...

Camo: mastitis twice must have been awful! Our sling is a wrap and it is fantastic- one of the best baby buys I think... Have not yet tried driving around, but it might be the next option...

Must be off to do some online shopping (Milton bucket etc), deposit milk and nap before the next feed...Bye!

Brits are anti dummy because they're seen as common. Seriously. There was a thread on mn a couple of years ag 'do posh people use dummies?'. Tell your dh to buy babysg a tweed babygro and hunting cap, to balance out the dummy. But stick with it

Just adding my 2p worth of support.... It does get better ... I had cracked and sore nipples with both and with dd2 it seemed to go on for about 3 weeks and then when I got the latch wrong it came back. I found argilla/ clay powder packs ( with cold water made up on breast pads- I do have spare argilla it is light and would be happy to send to you ) between feeds and then hot packs before feeding did help.
Re Colic we found that face baby down with your arm crooked his head in the crook and arms and lags flopping down eath side and back massage helped. I did it sitting on the sofa leaning forwards as could only manage about 5 mins standing up. DH 'the man' did longer.
With dd1 Dh was as shattered as me as he really did his part and I ended up doing mixed feeds 10 mins each side and then ff top up. I could be feeding for 1hr1/2 at times and I felt useless as I had no time for anything else.
We dummied with minirosa and I went through about 6 before she found one she liked it was silicone as she hated latex . God send I agree ......

Hello everyone!

SG, sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I totally second what the others have said/suggested.
With regards to expressing: my dd was poorly when she was only 5 days old, she had a high temp and we were readmitted in hospital. Luckily, she kept feeding from a bottle and for 3/4 days she had either formula or my milk (and I second electric pumps, I used to pump 200 ml in 10 mins with those)... I remember being worried she woyld totally forget about the nipples... but as soon as she felt better she was back at sucking like day 1. I hope this is the case of master SG too.
I also agree with masseuse and the others re the dummies. My dc always refused it, but the majorioty of my friends babies were happy with the dummy and breasfed for many months.

Here, have a huge hug from me, I know how itr feels... ds cried for months with colics . There is a light at the end of the tunnel, I promise.

Gio, good news

No idea about soft play centres, I wasn't too keen on them when in the UK, I've been only twice. There are quite a few in Milan and seem to be quite popular.

Yesterday night we went to the theatre to see Corrado Guzzanti, we had a very good time and some sketches are still amusing after so many yrs.

Sorry a sentence went missing from my post: dd was poorly and stopped latching to the breast, as if she wasn't strong enough to suck.

ok.... tell me if IABU... today we were invited for brunch at the neighbours. dd2 got a high temp in the night (39), so clearly no way she could go. dh and dd1 went, and i joined them for 40 min while dd2 slept (i brought the babymonitor, same house, went back when i heard she woke up before you call SS!)

After about 30 minutes dh came back with dd1, saying she was bored, and went back to the neighbours. He stayed tehre 2 1/2 hours. I am now fuming. Not only he leaves me along with 2 kids (one of them sick), on a sunday, on valentine's day (for what I care about that...) while he's having a nice time, but i keep thinking the neighbours must have thought him really rude and me basically a submissive wife who stays at home while the husband socialises.

He says IABU. I am more mad at him than I have been in months....

Sui- sweetheart, this is copied and pasted from the (now famous lol) Lovely Shelly, a friend of both mine and Mystic's...she is training at the mo' to be a bf counsellor.

"
Firstly, she should NOT be expressing and bottle feeding whilst treating her thrush, this could lead to problems with supply and further problems with baby's latch. Someone can not look at you whilst baby is latched on and tell you the latch is fine, they actually have to look closely at the gape of the baby's mouth and how much baby scoops into it's mouth when latching.

Thrush can be diagnosed by the type of pain, it is typically characterised by pain deep in the breast whilst feeding, does it hurt when she's feeding or when latching. even sore nips will feel better if the latch is fine once the initial 20 seconds are over. Does baby have white spots or a thick white coating on his whole tongue?

Can she have the baby thoroughly checked for a tongue tie? I watched a fantastic dvd this week on natural breastfeeding let me see if I can find a link to it and I'll get back to you, they had babies feeding comfortably who'd had painful problems and babies who were formula fed latching on painlessly. You start skin to skin with a calm baby on mum's chest and mum in a reclined position and then just allow the baby to reach and latch on to the nipple with as little help as possible, the look of relief on the faces of the mum's was amazing.

0300 330 0771 This is the NCT Breastfeeding support line, they will have someone who can talk to her now and also someone who can arrange to come and see her.

MW get the equivalent of 2 days standard breastfeeding training, NCT counsellors have a 3 year diploma, and experience in breastfeeding themselves.

Sorry for the waffle, love to your friend. "

There is also a link to a Youtube video which I'm going to c and p in a mo'.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYcpkYrOPBE&feature=related this is an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about although not the official video

This is an article by the lady who's dvd I watched talking about the technique

www.youtube.com

Oops, something is missing there, the last bit is supposed to be an article....will go back and get it in a mo'.

Mystic- of course YANBU! Is it possible he was trying to leave? (or was he just having too much of a good time??? ) Make sure he's on getting up in the night duty (although if he's anything like mine he'll suffer from that incurable, and seemingly only male affliction of night time stone deafness)

Hope dd is better soon. I am touching dd's forehead every 10 mins at the moment, as she is streaming with cold, not herself at all, although we went to his paese this morning to see the carnevale carri. (In the rain) Sat in the window of the bar for 2 hrs actually (yawn) as dd didn't want to go outside.

Rosa, I'd love to stalk you on FB but having got your first name, the rest is just far too cryptic for me

Buch Amazing ........ How sweet you sound.
I spell the Stricia bit with sh in the middle BTW
I do come up apparently with the Italian surname as well ......
MM - Was he trying to impress perche ?
If DH had asked me then I probably would have said yes. But then again my DH would say Vai tu as you need a break !
If he had done it without asking I would flip .....
Hope dd feels better soon.

He didn't ask ROsa. And i don't think he sees the error of his ways. He will pay for it.

Sui, Buch has some great tips, call these NCT people, they are very good. I saw a bf counsellor called Jean Waldman for dd2's tongue tie, but she works at the Royal Free and has a clinic in Hendon on thursday morning, which is miles away from you.

Here are details anyway...

Thursdays 10.00am-12.00pm
Contact: Jean Waldman and Pippa Faulkes 020 8455 6188
Breast is Best Support
Child?s Hill Clinic, Garth Rd, NW2 2NJ

MM, of course YANBU!!! but then my DP used to disappear for hours, with no way of contacting him, and wouldn't understand why I would worry - he'd "be back in 5, just going downstairs to buy the paper" and come back 3 hours later "as he felt like going for a walk ...

Rosa, are you the one with baby and union jack in the background?

Buch and MM: thank you very much for the links, advice and the BF counsellor details. Have watched the video and will sort out an appointment with the BF counsellor (DH very keen on BF and will drive me wherever) asap.

After Friday evening I was very scared to put the baby back on the breast but DH pushed me to do it earlier and I am delighted to report it did not hurt. Whether it is because the thrush has gone (if I ever had it), the nipples have healed or pure luck I do not know. But it has worked and has got rid of the lumpy engorgement that we had been dealing with since last night.

Have not yet tried the NCT helpline, but last night I called the National Breastfeeding Helpline and I must say they were very good: the first time I got connected to someone in Clapham who could advise not only on the problem at hand, but also on names of consultants etc to deal with tongue tie. DH and I a bit worried about tongue tie treatment: what if they cut too much? But will look into it.

MM: YANBU. I would be annoyed too. Then again, from his point of view he is probably trying to build a social network for the family etc. But nipping home to check you were fine and happy for him to stay would have been nicer!

SG, don't worry about the tt op- seriously, it is a really easy thing to do, they use blunt scissors (the surgeon showed me ) so it's impossible to cut too much. It used to be something done routinely by mws at birth, but as with many things, that's been lost. Do you think it could be tt?

(or as the not lovely woman surgeon who op'd dd2 said to me, on noticing I also have tt "in the 60s they used to formula feed a lot more, so that's why no one noticed your tt" eeehmmm I was actually born in the late seventies, thank you very much!)

Could you arrange to see that Clapahm based woman you spoke to on the phone?

but- yuppieee at latching on without pain. and fantastic that your dh is so supportive... however... your body and all that...

LOl at your dh Camo, my dad is exactly like that!

Clumsy day (still typing one-handed while expressing), sorry: hit "post" instead of "preview".

Rosa: thank you for the offer of the argilla, would be very interested in trying it. How do we go about getting in touch with each other? Can I email you via Mumsnet?

Franca: 200mls in 10 mins- I am hugely impressed. I am more on 100mls for 30-45 mins, and thought it was quite a lot. But then baby is quite young and seems to eat 80mls per feed, with breastfeeds taking about 30-45mls, so perhaps it is about right.

Don't get why pumping if you cannot breastfeed can mess up milk supply. Surely it is better to pump when the baby would feed, the amount that it would feed, rather than not "milk" the breast at all? Otherwise, with no milking, surely one would get engorged (which I did anyway, to a certain extent) and decrease milk supply by giving the breasts the message that the baby is not interested?

Sui- reading back through Shelly's c and p, I think she read the "expressing and bottle feeding" as expressing and formula feeding IYSWIM? As I also can't imagine why expressing would mess with your supply, unless there is something physiological which means when you express less comes out. (I used to be able to express for Italy, a real milch cow me....)

You sound much more positive today, and hopefully you and Baby SG are on the right road to less painful mealtimes! It's lovely that your dh is so positive about bf as well....

Matchsticks holding eyes open today, dd decided at midnight "mi viene da vomitare" (she didn't but we did have to sit with a bucket till 2am) Left all my numbers with maestra as she is definitely under the weather. I wish the schools here were closed for a few days for carnevale (mine is, 8km away ) but in this town we get the 2 days for the crocifisso of Colonna in May.....they row across the port with the One True Cross in a boat.

SUi you can CAT me ...I think my subscription is still valid .Don't want to post my e amil address as it is my full name... ( Which Buch is stilltrying to figure out so she can FB me!!!!!!!)
Buch we had the 24hrs vomitino bug and she is bouncing now. Just been out to get pane and we are staying in all day it is heaving out there - Yesterday was terrible but the sunday usually is...