The Release of Jamie Bulger's killers

[Rhiannon]

What are your thoughts on the release of the two boys that killed Jamie Bulger?

Do you think they should have been released and if so under what circumstances?

My personal view is that they should stay in custody. This was a very public case, still fresh in peoples' minds. My little girl is 2 the same age that Jamie was when he died. It sickens me to think about what they did at 10 years old and possibly what they are capable of in the future.

I agree with you Batters. Because the boys were so young we cannot apply the same adult principles to their sentence. Rather than focussing on how bad these boys were we need to ask how our society can produce children capable of this and attempt to ensure that it doesn't happen again. Too much effort from the judicial system and the media in particular seems to be focussed upon punishment and retribution.

Another point that seems to have been missed is that Jamie Bulger's mother has never expressed any kind of regret at her own neglect at not keeping an eye on her boy. Perhaps she does this in private but in public she always talks about what happened afterwards. I know we don't expect evil to be lurking at every corner but even from a practical viewpoint of losing your child in a busy shopping centre we should ensure that 2 year olds are on reins or strapped into a pushchair. Maybe this is rather an obvious point and is taken as read but you would have expected her to mention it.

My point really is that in this case and in so many others, particularly the "name and shame" stance adopted by the News of the World et al we seem to be obessed with getting at people. What happened to Christian forgiveness?

The Bulger killing was of course dreadful but we are never going to understand why it happened or do anything about prevention unless we really look at what preceded this event.

This is a complex case and obviously raises many issues. I cannot imagine how a human being can be capable of doing this to another. My thoughts are that if you don't respect yourself then you are capable of not respecting others and thus doing harm. This I feel is what is dangerous in our society. We know that people are less likely to reoffend if their choice of behaviour is towards something positive. Locking them up in prison removes this choice and therefore they are never really cured. At the end of the day Jamie Bulger can't be brought back but we should try to "learn lessons" from this case (I phrase rather too often used but not applied)

Perhaps I sound too much like a wishy-washy liberal here?? I do of course agree with a punishment that should fit the crime, but I don't think that keeping the Bulger killers locked up any longer will do anything positive for anyone involved in this case. As for them getting new identities etc - yes it is galling but what is the alternative?

I can not believe children of that age could do something so evil to a small child. Are these children just evil people and may do this kind of thing again?? Where did they get the idea to do something like this?? I hope all this was looked into as we dont always here everything that goes on. But maybe we should have in this case so maybe we could understand why they would consider letting them out. Also would we give a person, who had perhaps done a similiar crime but was older, a new identity??

Joe, people get knew identities all of the time and people who have killed children but are adults themselves serve their time are released and forgotten by the world at large (beyond the family and loved ones of their victim of course). This case is notorious because of the age of both the victim and the CHILDREN who murdered him. I agree with Batter's and Eulalia. In a civil society keeping these young people imprisoned serves no purpose.

Sadly James Bulger cannot be brought back to life but carrying out a witch hunt on two people who have served time, acknowledged their guilt, and shown remorse says much about a society which shares some responsibility in this murder. The fact that two ten year olds could cold bloodedly murder a toddler says much about the society we live in and in my personal opinion this society has not moved on when people want vengence.

I am appalled by the photographs of these boys on every daily paper this morning and I shall certainly be writing to my paper of choice The Guardian to express my disgust. One can understand the victims parents refusal to accept that these people have served their time and are of no threat to society but what about the column inches taken up in encouraging a witch hunt?

When you think about it I suppose the fact that they will be watched for the rest of their lives is comforting, unless they decide to disappear.

There are a lot of murderers at large that have never been caught, Rachel Nickells, Stephen Lawrence and many more.

Also people are always concerned if a known paedophile is in their area. But what about all the unknown ones?

I worked in a dentist for many years, my boss gave me some interesting advice when I expressed my concern about treating an aids patient. He said we know this patient has aids and will treat him accordingly but what about all the other patients that we don't know about, whether it be aids, HIV or Hepatitus B?

I agree that this will never go away because of the ages of all involved. I dont know, it makes you wonder if things will ever get better. Why does anybody, young or old, have to do such awful things. Its amazing how strong the protective instincts are when you have a child.

i watched some of the programme about the case and the detective concerned the other night - didn't see all of it but my husband said he (albert kirby) thought they should have been kept in custody for another ten years...but what would they be like then?
i can see that any length of time in an adult institution wouldn't help them much, but i hope they have at least been taken inside one so that they know what they will face if they do do something else, because the places where they have been are all about rehabilitation and understanding, not punishment and violence.
the bulgers only want vengeance and civilised society doesn't work like that...i can understand their feelings but mob rule is not on.
eulalia, you said the mother has "never expressed regret at her own neglect" - that's not fair. is there anybody on this board who can say, hand on heart, they have NEVER, under any circumstances, turned their back on a loose child for a few seconds ? she must be racked with guilt every day. she did what many other people did - then - when out shopping with a small child (he was nearer 3 than 2); which was to rely on holding his hand while out, and on him to stay close in the shop. she was very very unlucky.

i also feel deeply sorry for the woman who stopped them in the street, asked what they were up to, and was reassured by their answer. (i think they said he was their brother or something.)

what does concern me is that robert thompson spent the first 10/11 years of his life in a brutal uncaring environment which left him seriously emotionally damaged and capable of doing what he did. he was bullied all the time by his older brothers and it turned him into a bully - and worse - and while you have to bow to the superior knowledge and experience of the psychiatrists etc, in saying that he has gone past that and admitted what he did (very recently) and expressed remorse, that experience must have gone very deep.

they are not free. they never will be free. it'll be a rotten life for them outside, and who knows how long they will survive before somebody gets THEM. and then what?

There is a child attacking or abusing or killing another child every minute yet only certain things hit the headlines.

I have to agree James should have been on reins. I remember at the time his mother said "I thought he had just gone off as usual". Not just for this but cars, and other dangers but it's like you aren't allowed to say so.

I was in a shopping centre the other day and a a girl of about 3 was chasing pigeons. Her mother was standing smoking outside a shop rather than watching her child. Come to think of it why was this girl abusing animals by chasing them?! I had a word and got a mouthful of abuse. I just thought ok,let her get taken away or run over while you stand and have your fag with your mate but don't come crying to me or the police about it!

Yet again, for the sake of a few newspapers, the media are guilty for keeping this awful tragedy constantly fresh in the public's minds. It's because of this that the 8 years that have passed seem like hardly any time at all and so the cry goes up that it's too soon to release them. I think they are damned if they are set free and damned if they go to prison; they are just as likely to be set upon by a vengeful mob inside an adult prison as outside.
I think they should leave the country the minute they are released from the secure unit, it's the only answer.

Don't worry Sue they're not convicts anymore!Jodee it's far safer to know where they are than to let them go out of sight.

I thought the whole point of them having new identities, etc. is so that we don't know where they are. I just think this idea is not foolproof and they will always be looking over their shoulders.

jbr, a 3-yr-old chasing pigeons is abusing them?????

Yes actually. Why on earth was she chasing pigeons? I wouldn't let my child do that, especially as the pigeons were eating at the time. Animals should be treat with some respect.

I just feel very very sorry for the two boys, or young men as they are now. The future does not look good for them, considering the media frenzy. I anticipate something dreadful happening.

I can't help thinking that a child who commits such a dreadful crime at the age of 10, must be a product of his upbringing, and the videos and so on he has been in contact with. They needed help, education, and therapy, (which they have had), not punishment. And I would be extremely surprised if they re-offend again.

My husband asked me today if I would object if they came to live in our street. Would you?

I really would not mind at all, I don't consider them a danger. And yes, I do have a two year old boy, and thinking about the crime itself is very disturbing and upsetting, but that's not the issue here.

So in your childhood Jbr, you never 'shooed' or chased a bird? Bizarre.

Yes I agree that the mother was extremely unlucky and of course we've all let our kids run out of our grasp at times but the point is we would likely run after them straight away.

I have a confession to make .... I let my son chase some ducks! I don't think playing with birds is hurting them, provided it is only for a short time. And I do let my son run about quite a bit but only in places where I can see him very clearly. I don't know what the right age is for letting a child off reins/wrist strap. I don't think it matters - it is down to the individual child - depending upon how responsible they are. I am sure people used to use reins for longer - now they aren't generally used but pushchairs are used longer. I think then the child tends to not get used to walking about much and so can 'escape'. Anyway going off the subject here - it sounds as if the Bulger boy was allowed to run off before. I didn't say that the mother didn't feel terrible guilt but just that she didn't mention it in public or make any kind of comment to other mothers stressing the importance of reins etc.

i wouldn't like to say that she did or didn't make any public comment about how she felt about not hanging on to him, but i can remember from the news coverage at the time that bootle (if not everywhere else) sold out of reins by the next day...

it really was such a one-in-a-million incident that it could have happened to anybody, any time, anywhere. like sophie hook in her tent in her uncle's garden - remember that one? and sarah payne last summer? unless you want to have your kids permanently chained to you 24 hours a day, you just have to go with the odds and hope you are never the unlucky one.

I honestly don't think we can comment on what James Bulger's mother said at the time or since - she might have said all sorts of things that didn't get reported (by the way, the family always called and call him James - I have read they hate the way he is sometimes reported as 'Jamie'...as any of us would, if the life and death of one of our loved ones became public property and had their name changed in the process). All of us have experienced or will experience at some time that heart-sink moment when you look around and your child isn't there where you thought they would be. I have three children, and each one has 'escaped' or got lost at some point, and I am a careful, loving mother!

I think the passers-by who saw them and did nothing are worthy of criticism, but how do we ever dare to intervene? I saw a man carrying a screaming child through our shopping precinct the other week. I presumed it was a father carrying a kid having a tantrum, but it could have been an abduction. I hope I would if I saw some children with a toddler who was crying, though.

If we can't believe that children who commit evil acts are redeemable through the right sort of treatment, education and care, then we have no hope as a society. We have a duty to Venables and Thompson, and to their families, to ensure their safety. Justice is not carried out by lynch mobs in this country. The idea that they could be identified and 'dealt with' is chilling. Even if we tolerate that (and I don't) the lynch mob mentality makes mistakes. Look at what happened when mob rule decided to target the house of a supposed paedophile - and firebombed next door instead.

and look at what happened to that paediatrician...

Regarding James' name. I wish the press would stop calling all of the people involved in this by their surnames. If Robert and John get called "Bulger killers" anymore I will scream. It's totally disrespectful to James apart from anything else.

I think people are being a bit hard on Mrs Bulger. her life must be difficult enough with out suggesting she was at fault for not looking after him sufficiently. Those boys "went out to get a baby" and were going to get one. my liberal side says let them out and leave them alone but somehow the chilling premeditation of purchasing batteries to subsequently sexually abuse James withmakes me feel they should spend some meor time in custody as punishment.

The thing is the press are making the crime sound even worse than it was. Even the victim's family are making some statements to back their case up which aren't necessarily true. There is a lot of rumour and myth about this whole thing.

I saw on the Guardian website what they did then read somewhere else a whole different scenario. I have heard the sexual abuse thing somewhere else but then someone came into dispel it as a tabloid lie. It is the like the stories of what Robert and John supposedly did in the secure unit, all of which were proven to be not true.

For god's sake JBR, he was abducted, tortured, sexually abused and his body left on a train line to be decapitated. What on earth do you mean by saying that the media have suggested the crime was worse than it actually was??. Whatever anyone's view on the treatment of Thompson and Venables are, it's totally beyond me how anyone could seek to minimise the horror of their crime.