Would gay marriage undermine the exalted status of heterosexual marriage?

[Pruni]

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Dot1, unmarried fathers DON'T automatically have PR, but they do (from 1 Dec 03 and I know thps because it came into effect the day after dd was born) IF they attend the registration of the birth and agree to their name being on the birth cert. It's still not automatic. Shame on the NHS hey re pensions etc, if this was America surely they'd have been sued for discrimination by now (don't know what I'm talking about really, should shut up!) Hester, yes I agree, and unmarried partners can often be in equally weak positions on separation, even where a couple have children.

Dot - does the NHS not allow pension rights purely to same-sex unmarried partners, or to all unmarried partners? Because if the former then surely that is workplace discrimination on the grounds of sexuality? Didn't Cherie Booth take a similar case to the European Court of Human Rights a couple of years ago?

mtp, you are argueing in favour of arranged marriages!

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blu, im not sure why my comments were so upsetting. true, they were not very well vocalised. but i am not known for my tact.

i am apalled by the legal problems gay people can have. ER is to thank for that. hester, you have vocalised it perfectly. and i have would support anyone trying to get their union recognised by law.

someone else said something about how making a will etc takes care of the legal aspects. well i suppose it does. but isnt that a bit lonngwinded? just get a marriage certificate. its easier isnt it? i have three close friends who do not have marriage certificates, but do have kids with their dp's, and are having relationship problems. all threee of them say that if they were married , then they would leave, but as they are not, they have to put up with the crap their men are giving them as they would have few legal rights otherwise. being a friend all i can do is support them, but at the back of my mind, i just cant keep thinking, 'well why didnt you get the marriage certificate before you had a child with the man? or the joint financial responsibility?

that is what i meant by silly. there is a system n place in this country to ensure these rights. its called marriage. why dont people take advantage of this system? that is my question

WWW of course you're right - I meant that in my head but didn't put it down (re: if unmarried fathers are on the birth certificate and attend registration, which our donor father is/did) - thanks for clarifying!

I've been thinking about this again and how civil marriage does perhaps shift some of my antipathy to marriage as an institution, because part of of my antipathy to that institution has been quite explicitly that my friends didn't have equal access to it.

Quite honestly, I think my personal discomfort with it is that I've been around the block - and under the odd vehicle in the course of that - once too often to feel that I can make any guarantees about 'the rest of my life'.

Stitch
It just sounded as if you were dismissing the opinions and personal exsperiences as 'silly'. All explained now.Thanks. Sorry.

I agree with alicatsg point (ages ago!) that often couples get married because of the day and with hardly any real preparation or discussion about their lives together! Being a florist I see plenty of girls for whom The Day and every detail of it is the most important thing and I often think they've totally lost sight of the 'marriage' part!

www, the reason for the birth certificate thing with reagrd to dp's as opposed to dh's is that in the case of a dp he has to declare his rights over the child (ie declare that he is the father)whereas in the case of a marriage, the dh is assumed to be the father (ie the child is assumed to be a product of the marriage even if actually not - viz. Kimberley Quinn for instance).

motherinferior, there are evidently no guarantees, it is a leap of faith

I know Cam, which is presumably why, if you have a baby, aren't married and subsequently marry you have to re register the birth to reflect that the baby is 'a child of the marriage' (assuming it is!) all weird stuff if you ask me!

Yes that's exactly what we did, www. So dd got issued with a completely new birth certificate showing my married name etc. To "legitimise" her (?)

Hi,
My sister is gay and I love her very much and support her in whatever she does. But as a christian she knows that I wouldn't be part of any so called 'gay marraige'. Marraige is a gift that is given by God to a man and a woman who are in love. People marry and divorce far too easily and don't really think what marraige truly means. I don't judge anyone for how they live their lives, it's not my place, after all there is lots that I do wrong and I am not worthy to stand in judgement of anyone. I just follow my beliefs and bring my children up sharing my beliefs, but they too ultimately will have to decide one day for themselves.
Sarah x

Being in love and being given the opportunity to be joined with the person you love should be available to EVERYONE. Regardless of who they have fallen in love with and what gender they are.

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Well for me Sarah that's a pretty good example of what's wrong with Christianity.

whats love got to do with marriage? [grin}

Marriage is a legal contract designed to regularise relationships in the law for the purposes of taxation and inheritance.

Gosh Sarah, I bet your sister really loves you to put up with that judgemental attitude.

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it's what keeps me out of church, too, www
My heart sinks when I hear ... 'as a Christian'

it is possible to have two conflicting ideas and opinions. there is a posh word for it but i cant remember it.
i think youre all being a bit harsh on sarah. she says she loves her sister and even though she does not approve of her choices, she is still a good enough sis to accept her for what she is, imo. i have seen how hard it is for someone to accept something that goes against everything they believe in, yet she has done that. so for mn to turn round and say it is sad, is in my opinion judgemental.

Apparently Elton John and David Furnish are going to get married in August, 2 weeks after it becomes legal.

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Bloss, I don't think we need to be told to grow up because we disagree with Sarah and/or Christianity.