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Do you think our society is over-sexualised?

130 replies

MrsMerryHenry · 20/06/2009 07:31

I have just been reading the chapter on sex in Steve Biddulph's 'Raising Boys', and it got me wondering about this question.

I noticed the stark difference between the UK and a place I've visited in rural Uganda, where there is little to no advertising, let alone magazines, TV, etc etc. I also felt that the people I encountered there had a purity about them, which was incredibly beautiful. In the UK I have only ever seen this in young children - it felt very much like we have lost something, rather than that they are missing out on something we have.

When I came back to London from a two-week jaunt in Uganda I was overwhelmed by how heavily all things sexual are promoted here. It was like being hit in the face time and time again, and then of course I became desensitised to it. But reading Biddulph's book has raised the issue again. I would love to have a thoughtful conversation here about these questions (and more - please do add more questions!):

  1. Is our society oversexualised?
  2. How does it really, truly benefit us to promote sexuality (a) in the way that we do; (b) as heavily as we do?
  3. How does it disbenefit (for want of a better word) us - referring to (a) and (b) as above?
  4. Is there a better alternative?
OP posts:
hobbgoblin · 23/06/2009 23:09

That would be very interesting MrsMH ,look forward to possibly hearing your friend's thoughts, and yours!

Good thread btw.

SenoraPostrophe · 23/06/2009 23:12

MrsMH - yes I did, sorry. lines blurring together.

and no, I wasn't referring to you.

ABetaDad · 24/06/2009 09:05

SenoraPostrophe - you seem to have misunderstood my post and I am sorry that happened. All I am talking about is how to give real practical help to my own still young DSs when they suddenly become confused teenagers struggling with their own feelings, hormones and the added pressure from the sexualisation of society. Something that none of us here really had to cope with when we were growing up. Nothing more than that.

I feel scaryteacher/MrsMerryHenry interpeted what I said in the way I meant my posts to be read and have similar concerns to me. I have found their answers very helpful and honest.

I cannot believe a discussion was had about a 13 year old boy being 'misogynist' when talking privately to his mum about his own confused feelings about a girls body which he only accidentally saw a part of. All credit to him and scaryteacher that the discussion even took place.

Hobgoblin - you to have been very honest too and have pretty much summed up where I am in my thinking.

"how to teach our sons respect for women and how that must make us consider how not to become too precious about doing so. I don't know how to achieve this. It isn't to desxualise one's thoughts regarding girls/women and it isn't to demand that our daughters watch how they dress so as not to give boys mixed messages."

My basic feeling is I am going to tell my DSs what scaryteacher has told her son. Wait until after 16 and then only do it if you and the other person are absolutely sure and have made absolutely clear to each other you want to. I will add, that they should ignore what everyone else says they should be doing. The decision is theirs and the other persons alone and no one else has a say in that. Remember also that 'no always means no' and use contraception every time.

monkeytrousers · 24/06/2009 09:51

ST, Its not a mystery why rape is so costly to women - and also why being labelled a rapist is so costly to men - what I'm saying is that the 'rape is a crime of power not sex' slogan bypasses many of these issues, issues that rely on the unique female perspective, rather than a male or gender neutral one.

MMH - right I see what you mean. Thing is, and what needs to be studied further, is that rape may very well be at one end of an extreme spectrum for women, but not for men. Certainly not for men who find themselves in circumstances where being found out and/or punished is negligable - as in places where social order has broken down, or invading armies where the rape of indiginous women has for milennia been a 'legitiamte' spoil of war for the conquering troops and very easy as all the indiginous men are usually away fighting (and in many cases raping) themselves.

This is the gender perspective divide that needs to be carefully scrutinised. Ignoring it does not help women or the battle to get better justice for victims. And it depends on the acceptance of psyscosexual difference, which is somehting cultural constructivists within feminism and the humanites resist to their last breath, sadly.

I also wouldn't call absinence an extreme. It's hard to imagine whgen we live in a culture where sex seems everywhere, but in our pasts, certaily before the pill, and in cultures that basically imprison women or practice polygyny, a great many of the male population are doomed to abstinence. This is why men traditonally go to war. A population will not suffer if 50% of the men die at war, but it will be devestated if 50% of the women went to war and were killed.

So forced abstinence - for men and women is a tyranny, but not abstience by choice.

It's been known for a while that rape by teens is common.

As for what is deviant, you then have to look into psychiatry. Paedophiles for instance show devient sexual preferences, as to men who prey on the elderly. And these victims are more likley to be killed also. There are specific catagorys. Unfortunalty rape of women is so common around the world that is constitutes a mean, not an extreme.

That does not mean that rape is not commited by devient men, I never said that. Devient men do commit devient sexual offences, but the vast majority of rapes are commited by 'normal' men, although life history, subjective life expectancy (how long the person themselves expects to be around, all contrubute to high risk taking behavior, of which rape is one.

Not sure what you mean by maternal/paternal relationships Hobbgoblin, but live history theory is part of how my particular discipline looks at rape, if that's what you mean, which looks at a variety of factors from the rapists life history as above and measures for corrolates.

MMH, you are very right of course. Men are raped, and in huge numbers in prisons. In environmenst where men congrigate togther and practive their sexuality inhindered by women the amount of sex that goes on, consentual and non consentual is staggering.

You may bet that they are more traumatised than women but you are guessing. There is no dount that men will be traumatised from the assault, but there are essential factors that they do not have to deal with that women do, which makes neglecting the gender element bad for women searching for justice. The stats speak for themselves on that.

I am not attempting to charaterise the debaet as men vs women - I am always ploughing the middle ground in my arguments. Saying men and women are different does not dichotomise them or their issues.

monkeytrousers · 24/06/2009 09:55

Unfortunalty rape of women OF CHILD BEARING AGE is so common around the world that is constitutes a mean, not an extreme.

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