Do you think our society is over-sexualised?

[MrsMerryHenry]

I have just been reading the chapter on sex in Steve Biddulph's 'Raising Boys', and it got me wondering about this question.

I noticed the stark difference between the UK and a place I've visited in rural Uganda, where there is little to no advertising, let alone magazines, TV, etc etc. I also felt that the people I encountered there had a purity about them, which was incredibly beautiful. In the UK I have only ever seen this in young children - it felt very much like we have lost something, rather than that they are missing out on something we have.

When I came back to London from a two-week jaunt in Uganda I was overwhelmed by how heavily all things sexual are promoted here. It was like being hit in the face time and time again, and then of course I became desensitised to it. But reading Biddulph's book has raised the issue again. I would love to have a thoughtful conversation here about these questions (and more - please do add more questions!):

1. Is our society oversexualised?
2. How does it really, truly benefit us to promote sexuality (a) in the way that we do; (b) as heavily as we do?
3. How does it disbenefit (for want of a better word) us - referring to (a) and (b) as above?
4. Is there a better alternative?

i suppose it depemds onm whether one sees porn as a bad thing.

Possibly dittany, the point is that being paid by a man for a sexual encounter in itself is not exploitative of women. What is exploitative is the inequality in which such a transaction is founded. Rarely do women pay men for the same, and once again the way such a transaction is viewed when it is one sex comapared with the other is far more negative in bias toward the woman. The reasons we mentally attribute to a women using a male escort I'd argue are far different to those we apply to men. The vision we have of a male prostitute is different to that which we have of a female one, and again I suspect we envisage the male prostitute as a far more powerful figure than the female one. Look at, for example, male strippers compared with female ones. I'm sure most conjure up the almost humorous vision of a Chippendale, being lusted over hysterically by a gaggle of women, with women looking the fools in such a scenario time and time again. It might be interesting to note here how the media portrays male homosexual prostitutes. They are, I think, as women; portrayed as a pitiful emodiment of an individual who chooses to use their sexuality as a tool or asset.

Prostitution, apprecation of or sale of aspects of one self need not be viewed as lamentable when are women doing the selling or exploitative when men are doing the buying. It is a valid transaction made unequal by the righteous positive spin allocated to most of what men do and the degredation reserved for female choice making and female attempts to reach a postion of equal power amongst men.

The argument here mentioned regarding women's choice of attire is repetition of the above. If a man dresses provocatively we attribute far less negativity to what we see than if we witness a woman do so.

What we do is our ultimate choice as individuals and it is perfectly reasonable to make judgements about one another on an individual basis - it is how we ascertain who becomes our friend or foe. What is unacceptable is when stereotyped gender biases are applied before we get to making individual judgements about the people we meet.

I agree with dittany.
It must be hard as a pre-teen/teenage girl to find the right balance.
Another poster made a very valid point. At no time can I remember seeing a young boy (say age 8) in what I would describe as "porn" style clothing. Fair enough a lot of male clothing is dire but not in the same way as some girls. I have seen very young girls with sexual words written across their clothing and thought what are their parents thinking of.

Custy, porn isn't a bad thing intself is it? What makes porn a bad thing is the judgemements we make about the decisions taken to either involve oneself in its production, sale or enjoyment.

Women can't even argue that they possibly enjoy making pornography without derision and disbelief from males and females. We have already fixed in our minds that porn is BAD because it is designed for men, controlled by men, and enjoyed solely by men.

Women need to stop the embarrassed sniggering about enjoying their sexuality and they also need to stop defending their sexual selves.

Dittany, what my DH would be offended by is your wholesale condemnation of men.

It is a theme in your posts that appears to have no middle ground, no acceptance, no warm feelings towards the gender at all.

Sue, I agree with you to a point but it isn't the pornography that does this it is the attitudes towards male and female sexuality.

Whether we are so entrenched in patterns of behaviour that go back to our very evolutionary beginnings I'm not sure, but if we can come so far with so much then why can't we behave this aspect of human behaviour.

Ann Summers parties - hen dos avec nsaked 'fireman'. Vibrators in cerise pink.

Dittany, I think he does use porn occasionally, like many men, and women.

I am not touchy about it.

I am commenting on the fact that you give the impression of being a man-hater and I think that invalidates your arguments somewhat.

Sure, not Sue. Still have the Rita Sue and Bob thread on my brain

Back later, bathtime.

Yes to OP.

It isn't wrong to enjoy sexually explicit film, pictures or stories. It isn;t wrong to enjoy performing for such pictures or stories: lots of people genuinely do enjoy it, and lots of people are trying to make consensual, happy, positive porn.
Sex is fun. It;s nice. ANd the most important message we need to give to teens growing up is that sex is enjoyable and if you are not enjoying a sexual encounter, or if any of the participants in a sexual encounter is not thoroughly enjoying it, then there is something wrong (ie someone is not consenting, is not in a position to consent, or someone is pushing the boundaries too far too fast.) and everything should stop until that problem is addressed.

What an interesting thread. Yes to OP.

In fact, as a largely asexual person I want our society to be more sexualised. In the sense that it should be a normal part of life and conversation. To the extent that we can all stop getting so wound up about it and it can then stop being the centre of attention all the time. Does that make sense in any way?

Coming back to the OP and her reading the chapter on sex in Steve Biddulph's 'Raising Boys' (I think I will get that book). I do think society is over sexualised and I am reading this thread because I am really worried about my DSs ages 9 and 7 and how they will find a sensible path through their teenage years.

I want to ask some genuine question and am keen to hear what everyone thinks and especally those with teenagers.

If some/many teenage girls are dressed provocatively and acting provocatively because they are say copying Britney, or perhaps doing what cyteen suggested she did as a teenager, then how should my boys react when they are also teenagers?

Teenage boys like all men are programmed to naturally respond to visual signals. Am I to tell my boys to never ever respond to either teenage girls or any of the sexualised images in the media - because I honestly feel that is the only safe advice even if it sounds unrealistic.

Is it fair for teenage girls to dress and behave as provocatively as they wish (copying what they see in the media) and yet tell teenage boys to be absolute saints? Do teenage girls have no responsibility to respect teenage boys sexuality at all?

These are genuine questions, please do not flame me.

Dittany, I don't want to take you on, I really don't

I respect your opinions, to a degree

I just think you take them too far, I have said it before

It was not a personal attack, I happen to think you make constant personal attacks against men

I like men, I hate to see the whole of the gender being denigrated by the actions of a minority of horrible fuckers and that is what you do Dittany by lumping the whole lot of 'em together as being in a huuuuuge conspiracy to put women down

IMO, it ain't so

dittany - I don't want to attack or have a fight with you either because I often agree with a lot of what you say. However, I often feel pushed away and insulted by the way you talk about men. There are many many men who would support you but I just feel you actually hate us all. I accept you have many awful experiences that do need to be told but not in a way that just attacks all men.

Look at my post above. I REALLY want my boys to be responsible men who have great relationships with women. Teaching boys to behave properly and respect women is the way to go. My DW feels the same.

I didn't insult you, Dittany

I will.