MN Little Italy 15

[francagoestohollywood]

welcome!

It means "yes, we have a gate for the stairs".

Thanks Franca

feel like I should read to see how bad SC is now... sounds like i'd get frustrated though, we did so much extracurricular holocoust stuff at liceo, including visit to aushwitz, i'd end up arguing with myself (I find that as I get older I do that a lot )

and anyway, 600 pages, once a doddle, now seem a mountain, I've managed to read 2 chapters of the reader since I came back from hols, and that was what, 4 pages in 5 days!

DP's tiling, house still a mess, cases still unpacked - I had the brill idea to declutter the wardrobes before going away, but then got ill, so I have stuff out of cupboards around the house, some just chucked in as I left and rest in the cases! and I have til tuesday to sort it out or I won't be able to have DD's party next week! and of course I'm here MN'ing . good that we couldn't go and see the house today.

Any time Deb

Camo, you went to Auschwitz?

wow, your household always sounds so busy... I'm still at inlaws and get existential angst at the prospect of going home and declutter

Sorry about the "you went to auschwitz" question being left there in the air without elaborating.
I wrote a long bit about my feelings about visiting concentration camps, but erased it, I feared I'm getting a bit of a bore...

how do I translate "coming of age novel" into italian? I'm having a brain freeze at the moment.

Penthe THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I MEANT!!! All of it! (Obviously you put it soooo much better).

Yes yes yes to everything. Spot on.

Oh I got annoyed again just by reading your review.

I'd like to write so much more but you've said it so beautifully there's no need to add anything.

But I am so annoyed with Styron the book is going back to the charity shop.

oh, no, franca, don't worry. i've always been interested in it, we had various events in our village for the anniversary, with local survivors, including writers etc. plus we also went to la risiera di san sabba alle medie, and my grandfather was a pow in a camp, my great uncle too, in fact I was the first in the family to find out exactly how he died whilst trying to escape as one of his mates wrote a book about his time as a pow. but in any case, the visit to Auschwitz is one of those experiences I'd recommend, I think because you study so much about it on books at school that it seems nearly fictional, but once there, suddenly you realise it did happen, I was 19 at the time, so I guess still naive about the world...

omg, I sound about 90 now...

Thanks Camo. Yes, I haven been thinking seriously of going to visit for a long time now.

so have I.

I've been to Dachau. That was harrowing. I don't think I could handle a visit to Auschwitz.

I feel I should say something positive about SC: it did have some good bits.

I thought the most powerful scene(s) was when Sophie is given dried figs by Bronek, and is so grateful and excited; and then later, looking out the window she realises that they must have come from the newly arrived and instantly murdered Greek Jews, and is sick. I found this terribly moving, as (for once Styron didn't feel the need to elaborate too much and) it revealed the tragic, pitifully human economy of the camp. It is left to your imagination to wonder how those figs came into Bronek's hands; what deals or promises were made in exchange; whose they were; the long distance and terrifying journey someone had travelled with them in their pocket/hand, etc.

I also thought he described the urban and suburban landscape of NYC and Brooklyn well; that was atmospheric.

The opening chapters, particularly his recollection of his time as an editing underling were wry.

Yes, yes, yes, Penthe. Totally agree.
I actually think that the description of Sophie's life living as a servant in the house of the Nazi who she'll try to seduce is the best part of the book.

And I liked the descriptions of Brooklyn etc, especially Coney Island when they go to the beach.

Have to share this MARKS and SPENCER are now posting to Italy !!!!
I am in a panic about a wedding now moved from end of Sept ( had clothes) to end of Oct ( don't have outfit)and was trying to order before I leave and I saw they are posting to 41 new countries... Oh knickers oh reasonable priced clothes oh sizes that fit chubby me .... I am happy especially as Next stuff has gone far too trendy and all short things .....
Back to have surf to possibly ear mark stuff as I want things I will wear again
Baci

Quick post: not sure i could handle a concentration camp, I would feel like a tourist there to gawp, not sure i could justify the visit. Hard to explain....Why would you girls want to go? Curious..

Dp getting on my bloody nerves, infact it is not the children i cannto put up with, it's him!!!!! Pita! Also quite sad that the intimacy i had with ds as a baby it is harder with dd, because have other things to do. Oh, long hours singing songs and giving massages to ds, spent 3 years like that, with dd is a quick song and down she goes with her toys. I would die of sorrow if i had to work full time and only see the kids for 2 hours in the evening. They are such lovely kids [love in emoticon]. Dp another story.

Rosa: would Padova be too far from Venice?

MM: what about studying in Geneva if you thijnk you suck at baby and having more children?

I also thijnk at a camp I would have a physical reaction, retching, etc...And it would take me a while to go back to normal life. Infact I would struggle to go back to life. Maybe the dead there though want people to visit, don't knwo. Not that I am religious. I do think though that landscapes that have seen lots of deaths have their own spirituality and maybe need to see people walking through them. Boh. Would like to know your thoughts.

Franca, only posted book yesterday, between one thing and another the package got forgotten ijn the car.

I also have a Singer novel to read on my bedside table, called Ombres sur l'Hudson, in French, originally in Yiddish I think. Will tackle it soon. Had never heard of him, then friend lent me this.

Yes I can see your point re camps and I think you are quite right in that it could be/seem a bit voyeristic and at the same time like intruding even.
But, and I am just talking for myself here, I also think that going to the actual place where something had happened makes me internalised it more in a deeper level. It's not just the camps, I'd like to go to to Dresden, to Flanders, to Normandy etc. To me it feels like getting closer to those that were there and lived such a completely different and far far harder life mine. It's humbling and a way to understenad more and pay respect.

The first time I went to the Re di Puglia I spent probably an hour there lost in my own thoughts. And yes I am sure there's a spirituality in such places which does transfer.

Had to make a different post but GREAT about M&S Rosa. I can totally understand about not finding italian clothes at decnt prices. I wonder sometimes how people do. Imagine all those lovely bras and knickers (almost wrote knockers ).

McC I think you and DP need a good night out on your own. no?

lol at knockers!

yes, we probably need some time together, but at the same time i dread not having anything to say to him, and having to listen to the same stories, and me telling him the same stories, blah blah.
I did think the other day that if we didnt have kids we would have split up by now. {and i would be with gorgeous george or randy kevin!} [horny emoticon] or even both, swoon.

Yes you prob would (talk about the same things) at first but then the alcohol different location with all that entails will give it a different twist.
But yes do not expect first date fireworks. Everytime we go out DH starts yawning at 10pm and you can tell is desperate for bed and news [pathetic emoticon]. Then he wonders why I'm out till 12 and drink brandies when I go out with friend .

Yes, what keeps me from actually going to a concentration camp is the danger of feeling like a tourist with a morbid interest to what's happened. But I feel like I should, just because. You are right maybe because these places need us to be there, and feel empathy or at least try to.

Will M&S post food as well? I'd kill for a carrot cake.

Urban Joke:

How do you know whether someone lives in Muswell Hill or not? Look at their DS. If he's got very long hair and is dressed like Lola from Charlie and Lola the answer is a YES!!!

Oh Muswell Hill. It sounds nice

Yes nice but I see it now as the real version of MN. In the park today I could swear I 'saw' a few Mnetters. Oh and they all paractice UP too. (How mean of me!)

scary!!!

have you been to Fiabilandia?