Michael Howard makes my BLOOD BOIL

[Enid]

It makes my blood boil to hear Michael Howard talking about Labour 'diluting British values' - eg giving some asylum seekers special treatment.

How dare he presume that British values aren't ones of tolerance, understanding and caring.

I hate the Tory party and I especially hate Michael Howard.

Thanks, I feel better now.

Tallulah, it might surprise you to find out that the paper I read every day is, in fact, the Daily Mail. Know thine enemy, I always say.

But regardless of this, I'm still waiting for the facts that back up your post of 11.03.38am.

Tallulah, saying "Their "culture" says its ok. Ours says it isn't. Argue all you like but that is fact." is just buying into racist propaganda. It is nowhere near 'a fact'. No country's inhabitants adhere to one single unified idea of culture. Look at our country: there is no single stance on personal morality or behaviour, which is why we have laws which prevent and punish certain acts. So perhaps pockets of men from E Europe and pockets of men from Africa commit rape: so what? You are not seriously suggesting that any government formulates immigration laws on the basis that there is the possibility that a man from a particular country might come here and rape a woman because he reckons it's ok back home? Nuts.

As to motoring offences, as more people are killed on the road than for any other reason, I think it's quite a good idea to crack down on them. My child is god knows how many times more likely to be killed by an otherwise lawabiding driver, than a paedophile, and a woman is more likely to be killed or injured by a respectable driver than an asylum seeker. Seems quite sensible to target irresponsible and harmful driving to me.

Ok, Tallulah's comment is extreme, but there are immigrants who come from cultures where women are oppressed and some of them, not all, bring some pretty nasty attitudes with them. Being anti-racism or accepting of immigration shouldn't prevent you being against misogyny too. FWIW when I lived in one particular area with a high population of immigrants from one country that treats women pretty badly, my sister and I experienced verbal and even physical aggression directed at us clearly because of our gender and the colour of our skin on several occasions. They were angry with us for not covering up our arms, for instance, and thought white girls were 'easy', apparently (and I'm talking young teenagers - my sister was 14). I hate to think how these men treated women from their own culture.
Other places I've lived in with a rich multi-cultural mix have been fine - maybe it was the weighting towards the particular country of origin in the first area that was the root of the problem, I'm not sure. That doesn't mean everyone from that country is a woman-hater, of course, and there are plenty of British-born men who are vile to women too. But I do think there has to be some sort of effort to explain cultural values to recent immigrants and point out what would be considered unacceptable; if I moved overseas I'd welcome some sort of introduction to the place I lived and what behaviour might be seen as offensive.
PS I hate Michael Howard too - Blair also unpopular round here but not quite as vile as MH.

PS I hate Michael Howard too. But I can't bring myself to vote for Tony either after tuition fees, Iraq, attacks on civil liberties and democracy, creeping privatisation of the NHS through PFI and forced contracts with private providers even where they are unnecessary.

duh sorry about repetitive PS - rewrote my post a bit in an attempt to be precise about my experience and point I was making. Probably failed there too...

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hi cod did you see my 'thank you' message for the interview? article will be in July issue have put you down for comp copy but let me know if doesn't arrive by beginning June and I'll case.
Since you are one this thread, dare you to reveal your innermost feelings for MH!

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Oh Lord can't remember where, think I started a thread called 'thanks Cod and Aloha' weeks ago now. Been so hectic round here have only had snatched moments on MN (this is first session for a WEEK). But gist was ta v much, you are fab, will be in July issue, CAT me if you don't get a comp copy beginning of June (I'm leaving the mag but have put you down for comp copy).

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I studied anthropology, not politics. But try these for starters
Violence against women index

Kenya web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAFR320082002?open&of=ENG-KEN

Turkey \link{url\web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGEUR440132004

caligula, i don't disagree that the police should crack down on irresponsible driving. Did i say that? DHs colleague heard noises in his neighbours house- elderly woman living alone. He called the police. They were "too busy" to come. He insisted there was someone there. No they wouldn't come out. He had to go in himself- luckily for him they legged it out the back as he went in the front. Old lady petrified. Burglars free to repeat the procedure. I hear this story every day.

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interesting link tallulah but violence against women seems sadly international rather than restricted to the countries you are worried about.

Sorry, but I really dont see how this backs up your previous post. In fact, given that there are links there to 37 separate AI pages detailing violence against women all over the world, including countries which I'm guessing you would not regard as culturally predisposed to find violence against women 'acceptable' - Australia? Denmark? - it would seem to say the opposite.

Anyway, this is going off the point of the thread. Michael Howard is still a tosspot

I've just sat through the tory political broadcast (cue pictures of footpaths and hearty looking women by the sea) and he's still bleating on about his parents, what a saddo

Here, here, Enid!

and that weird blond woman with the slightly drugged voice 'How hard can it be to keep hospitals clean' - don't know, you contracted out all the cleaners you bastards

Personally, I'm most scared of his economic policies. Our family relies on tax credits to live until I can qualify as a solicitor. B/c I have to work two jobs at the same time as doing my studies, the entire process is going to take me seven years. I cringe to imagine what would happen to our family w/o these credits. My husband is disabled. It's almost like Howard and co. have this attitude that if people aren't rich it's their fault s/how and there's s/thing wrong w/them. What's with that? Our children are just as British as a/one else! We count, too!

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Exactly, Pruni. And what about those who want to and love to professions that traditionally don't pay well enough for them to afford family accommodation in some places (even to rent) - like nursing, law enforcement, and teaching? Is it just 'too bad' for those people? What about craftsmen, artisans, musicians, etc.? Those are traditionally low-paying as well, but contribute a lot towards preserving and enriching society.

Never thought of it that way, Pruni, but you're quite right, it's pretty vapid intellectually.

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if party election broadcasts are anything to go by then last nights labour one really did eliminate all chances of me voting tory.showed all of the totally shit things MH did when the tories were "steering the ship". ( with the soundtrack of "memories" being played over images- clever advertising on labours part)

i trust tony blair very little but i do trust gordon brown and believe he has the interests of young working families (ie my family) at heart.

i would never vote for a party which is so blatently racist, regardless of thier attempts to convince otherwise.

I've seen that advert, Tired. It's striking. I am an immigrant, and wasn't during those times, but my work colleagues remember them very vividly.