just something to share

[threeangels]

I know war has been a lot more on many minds lately. I found this sight and wanted to share it with anyone who is interested.

I also want to say that any mumsnetters who have any family members going to war along with everyone else in the world will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Are We Nearing the End Times?
Did you know all the signs Jesus said would signify His second coming are occurring in our time?
The Rev. Billy Graham, Pope John Paul II and numerous Orthodox Jewish rabbis have all said they believe that the coming of the Messiah is very near. Why? Because so many Bible prophecies are being fulfilled.

When Jesus' disciples asked what would signal His return, He gave them several signs to watch for. He also taught that the time immediately before His coming would be known as the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8), which in English means the "onset of labor pains."

Jesus was saying the signs of His coming would start out as mild pangs spaced widely apart like human labor and then gradually become closer together and more intense, like the birth process, until this seven-year period of suffering and judgment would culminate in the coming of the Messiah.

The Signs
Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5
War War in the original Greek of Matthew 24 is ethnos, meaning ethnic or racial war. A recent editorial in Time magazine reported there are presently 67 wars being fought around the planet and most of them are ethnic wars, including the recent slaughter in Rwanda and Bosnia. According to the National Defense Council Foundation, conflicts around the globe have doubled since 1989. "... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7
Famine The LA Times reported recently that more than one billion people suffer from serious malnutrition, exacerbated in the past months by worldwide drought. More than 35 million people living mostly in the southern states of Africa suffer from acute hunger and are threatened with imminent death. "There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7.
Pestilence The rate of infectious diseases has increased 58% since 1980, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Diseases once considered conquered are now reappearing, sometimes in drug-resistant forms. AIDS has become a worldwide scourge, and viral diseases such as Ebola pose an international threat because of transcontinental flight. "There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.
Earthquakes The number of dangerous earthquakes measuring 6.0 or greater on the Richter scale has been steadily increasing since the 1950s when there were nine. In the 1960s, there were 13. In the 1970s, 51. In the 1980s, 86. In the 1990s more than100 such serious earthquakes have already been recorded, according to the LA Herald Examiner. "There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.
The Seas and Waves Roaring The Associated Press reports that the most recently completed Atlantic hurricane season produced 11 hurricanes, 8 tropical storms, and $7.7 billion in damage. Serious flooding has also occurred recently in the U.S., Russia, Japan, Mexico, China, Europe, Korea, and the United Kingdom, according to Barron's. "There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.
Great Signs in the Heavens The 1994 comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, a string of 21 space rocks that slammed into Jupiter with the power of thousands of nuclear explosions, could be a heavenly sign. Jupiter is the mythological king of the planets and in Christian symbolism it is a representation of Christ. The 21 explosions are reminiscent of the 21 judgments that will befall Earth during the seven-year period that ushers in the coming of the Messiah, according to the Book of Revelation. The comet Hyakutake has recently lit up the night sky, and what promises to be the spectacular comet Hale-Bopp, first sighted in 1995, is scheduled to come nearest to our sun in the spring of 1997. "Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.
Violence Since 1960 violent crime has increased in the U.S. by 560%, according to FBI statistics, and the number of reported cases of child abuse in the U.S. has risen from 670,000 in 1976 to nearly 3 million in the 1990s. Other nations are experiencing similar dramatic increases in violent crime, reports the San Francisco Chronicle. "...as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mt. 24:37. ("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)
Gospel Preached to the Whole World Pope John Paul II has traveled to 70-plus nations during his pontificate, preaching the gospel to millions. The Rev. Billy Graham recently conducted a week-long crusade from Costa Rica translated into every language on the planet and broadcast via satellite around the globe. With Communism's collapse, Christian radio and TV are now reaching into almost every nook and cranny of planet Earth. "...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.
All of the signs that Jesus said would precede His return seem to be occurring in our time.

Other Prophecies Fulfilled
Other prophecies relating to this seven-year period of judgment, coming from many parts of the Bible, have also begun to be fulfilled:

Israel reborn as a nation in 1948 (Ezek. 4:3-6, Lev. 26:18)
Israel surrounded by hostile Arab countries (Psalm 83:4-8)
Jerusalem inhabited by the Jews (Luke 21:24)
Israel negotiates a peace treaty with her enemies (Daniel 9:27)
Doomsday weapons threaten earth (Joel 2:3)
Ecological devastation occurs (Rev. 11:18)
The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Heresies become widespread (II Thess. 2:3)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Satanic and cultic activity arises (I Tim. 4:1)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Massive increases in wealth occur (Jas. 5:3)
GATT and World Trade Organization become possible forerunners of a world government (Rev. 13:7)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)
Knowledge vastly increases (Dan. 12:4)
Russian and Ethiopian Jews return to Israel (Jer. 23:7,8; Zeph. 3:10)
The Hebrew language is recovered (Zeph. 3:9)
Jerusalem is rebuilt in nine specific directions (Jer. 31:38-40)
Levites and priests train for Temple service (Ezek. 43:14,15)
Israel's rainfall increases dramatically (Joel 2:23) and the country becomes fertile and blossoms (Isa. 27:6)
Men become more selfish, arrogant, abusive, ungrateful, fierce and treacherous (II Tim. 3:2,3)
Where We Fit In
Referring to these signs, Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." (Luke 21:24-28).

If we are approaching that seven-year period that precedes the second coming of Christ - and all the signs indicate we are - the Bible tells us those years of judgment upon the earth will be accompanied by untold human suffering.

But believers in Christ who have sincerely placed their trust in Him can be certain of the redemption to which Jesus referred, for He promised His followers that "God has not destined us for wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).

So where does that leave you? Are you one of God's children who's been called to believe in His Son but has rejected each invitation? Where are you going to spend the seven years of God's wrath? And the rest of eternity?

Jesus told us that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John. 3:16). But He went on to say that "...he who does not believe is already condemned because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John. 3:18).

Is it too late for you to find salvation?
Not yet. God designed an "escape hatch" for us by offering His only Son to die a miserable death on a cross so that our sins could be blotted out in our Creator's sight and we could be reconciled to Him.

All we have to do is accept His Son as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. By doing this our loving Father promised that, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor heart imagined the wonderful things God has prepared for those who love Him" (1 Cor. 2:9).

Would you like to receive those "wonderful things" in the everlasting life Christ promised His followers? Do you want to know how to accept God's Son? It's simple. All you have to do is sincerely pray this prayer: "Lord Jesus, I know I'm a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins and I want to turn away from my wrongdoing. Right now I'm inviting you to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You, making You my Lord and Savior. Amen."

What Next?
If you prayed this and meant it, you need to start talking to God through prayer, reading the Scriptures daily to get to know God better, and find a church where Christians like you worship Christ and where the good news of the Bible is being preached.

Remember, you are now Christ's representative to a needy world that appears to be embarking upon the period of unimaginable suffering that precedes Christ's second coming. You can help lead others to the Truth you've discovered and enable them to avoid the agony to come. Don't put this off. Today is the day of salvation. Tomorrow may be too late. God bless you on your journey.

If you would like to pursue a more in-depth study of Bible prophecy, books by Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, Peter LaLonde, and John Walvoord among others are available at most Christian bookstores.

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Other Christian Information Sites on the WWW:
ICL Net: Christian Literature on the Net
Bible Gateway
Christian Coalition Home Page
Jewish and Christian Links
Lions Den
Jack Van Impe Home Page
Zola Levitt Presents

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slug- agree totally- you obviously know your stuff.

One historical point- and slug am I right on this? From my limited study of religion I understand that at the time of JC there were a lot of people wandering the desert claiming to be this that or the other son of God etc. I've always understood that it was because the people were repressed - under Roman occupation etc. Lets face religion looks good to the poor. You couldn't be a jew unless you were born to a jewish mother- so the area was ripe for a new religion. Jesus let you follow him no matter who you were. And he was dfferent from the others as he had Paul basically promoting him.

And yes slug Christianity as understood by Bush is terrifying!

Slug - sorry for offending you, but I never aimed the remarks you have quoted at you, but people in general who dismiss religion without really looking into it, which is obviously not you. Sorry if you thought I was having a go, I would never do that to anyone, there is far too much of that on Mumsnet lately!
I also didn't say that the Matthew quote related to homosexuality, I put it in there to get other people's opinions on it, it seems that Jesus is talking about sexuality to me, but that would just be my interpretation.
Also, you seem to indicate that religion does more harm than good, you may be right. At least the people who profess to have a religion sometimes to more harm than good, not the religion itself. And all through this thread we have said that there is a huge difference between belonging to a religion and having faith. I doubt very much Mr Bush has much in the way of faith, or indeed reads his Bible very much, or else he wouldn't be going around killing people.

At the end of the day, religion will be used as a tool for almost anything, and it's a subject that will stoke up many strong feelings. But then isn't it easier to pass the buck and say that it's not mankind who is to blame, but God? Or indeed, even those who do not believe in God still blame him! There are awful things being said in the name of religion and there are some terribly small-minded religious people about, but equally that can be said for any person, religious or not. I think it all boils down to humanity itself, which would still be like this if there were no religion at all. Religion sets a blueprint for the way we should live our lives and treat others, some people choose only the bits in that to suit themselves and they discard the rest. That is not religions fault, but theirs.

Slug, sorry for interjecting here but when you talked about the possibility of Lazarus only being in a coma, that's actually not the case. If I remember correctly, when Jesus was about to go in and lay hands on Lazarus' body, Lazarus' sister told Jesus that it was too late because "he had already been dead a few days and there was already a stench." She also told Jesus that if he had've arrived sooner, her brother wouldn't have died. So it seems pretty clear to me that Lazarus was indeed dead, and then raised back to life by Jesus.

Whey hey Rhubarb, we agree on something! Religion is used to justify the oppression of others. Which just begs the question, why believe in it? It is perfectly possible to have a moral code that makes no reference to a higher power, merely one that recognises that society needs certain constraints in order to function effectivly. Get rid of god and you get rid of the unanswerable. Think of it in the way that children grow up. When they are small, you are the supreme authority, but as they grow and mature and start to think for themselves, they can question your pronouncements and apply their own conscience.

It occurs to me that some of you may find this offensive, but I see religious belief - as opposed to spirituality which is something completly separate - as childish thinking. By still believing absolutly in pronouncements from a higher being, you are perhaps failing to allow yourselves to grow up and start questioning some of your assumptions. As an example, how about the issue of witches? Somewhere in the bible it says "Suffer ye not a witch to live". Yet how many of you still believe in the existence of demonic women bent on destroying gods power? And if you did, would you string them up from the nearest lampost? Or alternativly you could take the view that witches are the manisfestaion of feminine power which was so threatening to the male church heirarchy. The second explanation is possibly the more sophisticated one, yet I have students (and I teach 16-18 year olds) who still absoultly believe in demons, devils and witches.

I read in the Scientific American of a lecturer at a Southern States College who was giving a lecture on Darwinism during a thunderstorm. One of the students got up and walked out halfway. When questioned why, the student said he didn't want to argue with god who was obviously angry at the lecturer. I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that.

Libby65, his bowells could have opened. The Victorians were terrified of being thought dead and buried alive. It's not an unknown phenomon.

slug - witches do exist. I have previously 'come out' on Mumsnet as a witch - or a Wiccan to use the proper term. We are followers of a pre-christian faith.

Sorry Snugs, I didn't mean to imply that Wiccans don't exist, I meant the pointy hatted, potion brewing, broomstick flying, evil doing, satan worshipping types that god fearing christians seem to enjoy burning at stakes a few hundred years ago.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Wiccans into the cycles of nature, non violence and women centerdness?

Maybe I'm not anti religion, maybe it's patriarchial religions and the way women get sucked into supporting a system that oppresses them that gets up my nose.

bloss,

my compliments to your oratory eloquence, I'm no match for you, but I find my views very well expressed by Slug anyway...

You seem to ahve studied Philosophy, isnt'it interesting that's teh very study of philosophy that has caused my disbelief in anything supernatural, while it seems that it's had the opposite effect on you??

Slug - we have been known to brew the odd potion or 2 and I do own a broomstick (but I dont fly it ) but we constantly fight against the rest of the pointy hat etc image.

Yes, we are a nature loving, non violent, earth based religion. Certainly more female orientated than most religions, tho' we do honour both the God and the Goddess.

I answered a few questions previously here if you are interested.

Message withdrawn

Slug, funny that you should attribute religious belief to 'childish thinking'. Well - Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it." So perhaps that is a pre-requisite to receiving eternal life. Children are open, trusting, and have no trouble believing. Adults, on the other hand, are cynical, doubtful, proud, unbelieving and full of their own self-importance. So the analogy of being 'like children' makes sense to me. There's got to be a time when we stop relying on our own mortal intelligence and realise that we don't have the answers to everything. Were we there at the beginning of time? No. Do we know how to create a baby in a womb? No. Who ordained that a sperm and an ovum would fuse to create a new human life, without any intervention by man? The list is endless, and every day people put their trust in other men to give them all the answers. It amazes me no end, that people who scoff at the idea of a higher being creating the universe, would rather believe in evolution or the 'big bang' theory.

With regards Lazarus, he was entombed for four days prior to Jesus arriving. The bible says several times that he was already dead and had been buried in grave clothes. So when Jesus called out, "Lazarus, come out", he emerged from the tomb and his grave clothes were then removed. So are you saying that Jesus raised him from a coma, and not from death? The answer looks pretty obvious to me, but either way, he emerged from a tomb immediately on the word of Jesus. In this passage of scripture, it says five times that Lazarus was dead, so why start speculating about whether he was in a coma? Was the blind man not really blind when Jesus healed him? You could spend the rest of your life arguing these points, but it just comes down to whether or not you want to believe it.

Which particular gospel was that in? If it was anything other than Mark I'd be very dubious of the authenticity of anything but the bare basics of the story. Legends do get embellished with time.

I'm not sure that I follow the logic that just because we don't know the all answers means we must therefore believe in god. I don't see the link.

Thank you Tinker, elegantly put.

Libby65, of course it is childish thinking. "Just put your trust in Daddy and everything will be all right" That's how so much abuse in the Cristian church was perpetuated.

Boy I have to say slug - you sound extremely 'hardened'. I don't think it's at all stupid or gullible to have a faith, I think it's a great thing, and I feel sorry that you can't even see that.

I've held my beliefs for a very long time, and I've had some absolutely incredible experiences that are beyond coincidence. My faith is real and I'm happy to stick with it, thanks very much.

Yup, thats what a Catholic education does for you.

Slug - what do you have against religion exactly? It seems to me that you are going out of your way to say unjustified and disrespectful things about it, when no-one that I can see is doing anything of the sort to you or atheism, or Paganism, or any other non-God organisations. You say we will be better off without religion right? Well is that not a case of only seeing the bad and ignoring the good because it suits your argument? And please don't turn my words around, I never said anything about religion oppressing people.

Ok, here's a list of good things religion does:
Mother Theresa, International Aid Organistion, St Vincent DePaul Society, Sisters of the Poor, missionaries, Good Rock Foundation, and I'm sure people could name many others. Here where I live, the homeless shelter is maintained and funded by the Methodist Church, all the Churches organise food parcels for the homeless and elderly, there is a Christian organistion that visit prisoners, need I go on? Yes, there are other non-Christian organisations that do just as much, but a lot of these charities and groups have been started by people who have been inspired to help others by a love of God and a respect of the commandment 'Love thy Neighbour'. In fact the lady who runs the charity I work for, is a devout Christian who was close to ending her own life 10 years ago, but through her faith and love of God, pulled back from the brink and set up a charity which helps orphaned and abandoned children in China. Her faith is amazing, she radiates love for the children she helps, and her love for God is enviable.

For all the people contributing to this thread who say religion is rubbish, they seem to be the people who most have something to prove. I don't aim to convert any one of you, you can think me childish in my beliefs, call me ignorant, condemn my faith, anything you like, it says more about you than it does about me.

When will humanity stop blaming religion for all its ills and take responsibility for its own actions? People accuse God of neglecting the innocents, but it is society who has made these monsters who prey on our children, society who makes war, we cannot ruin things and then expect God to step in and save us. We are always too ready to pass the buck, lets not feel guilty, it's not our fault, let's condemn the Bible and ignore the messages it proclaims, and then when things go wrong, lets ask God where he was? A God we don't even believe in! Maturity comes when you start taking reponsibility for your own actions, humankind is still very immature!

slug I'm very intrigued in the fact that someone who obviously had a strong enough interest in religion to undertake a degree in Religious Studies, finds themselves transformed into a committed athiest as a result of it. What exactly made you decide that it was a load of bollocks? The fact that there was so much information that couldn't be reconciled or proven in your own mind? I am not trying to have a go at you, I'm just trying to understand why studying religion had such a negative effect on you. Surely not the intention of those who wrote the course of study...?

I am sorry that being brought up as a Catholic had a negative effect on you. I am not Catholic so I'm afraid I can't relate to that.

Going back a bit with regard to Jesus not condemning homosexuality, in Mark 10:7 he specifically refers to an old testament scripture which says that from the beginning, God has meant for man and woman to be together. He says that a man shall leave his mother and father and become 'one' with his wife, and what God has brought together let no man put asunder (separate). He also speaks several times about adultery and divorce, but only between a man and a woman. Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the old testament and Jesus consistently referred to old testament scripture ("It is written...". He never refuted anything that was in the old testament. He said that he came "not to destroy the Law, but to fulfil it." So for Jesus to support homosexuality would go against everything that he was.

Some of these arguments could go on forever.. it all comes down to belief and acceptance, or unbelief and rejection. It is a shame that so much wrong has been done in the name of religion, when it's really men who have perpetuated the wrongs in the first place. I also think it's a shame slug that you obviously had a very real interest in this area and have come away feeling so completely against it.

That was not meant to be a wink in the 3rd paragraph... it was meant to be a bracket. (Why does it do that??!!)

am ashamed libby - after everything that has come before in this thread for someone to say that jesus condemns homosexuality.

i just hope for some of the non religeous types you remember the seperation of faith and religeon point

rhuby - i know am bound to be biased but thought your last posting was fandabbydosy. glad youpointed out that organised religeon does some good and that we have to accept responsability for our own actions

and the popes a slut!

Libby - it's interesting to note that there were no word for homosexual or homosexuality in Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic (the original languages of the bible). Prostitution (particularly temple prostitution) of both orientations is roundly condemned in many places in the old testament as is male ritual sexuality (for example in the Canaanite fertility religion). Sodom's sin was not responding to the poor and needy and rape not homosexuality.

I'd also be interested if those that insist that all laws in the old testament are for today (remember Jesus came not to destroy the Law after all) whether they follow every last one themselves such as avoiding church while menstruating and all the animal sacrifices that are required by the Law.

Oooh Georgina, there's also something about not eating shellfish. In fact, if you think about it, if you believe in the law of the old testament, then surely you should be kosher as well

As to the other comments, my rely will have to wait until a time when I don't have a classroom full of panicking students to attend to.

slug
can you expand on what you mean by spirituality being entirely different from religion? I'm intrigued by this.

I hope I don't offend anyone with this link, but it's quite an interesting site It goes into quite a lot of detail about inconsistencies etc in quite a light hearted way. It also gets you straight to the juicy sex and violence bits if that's what you want to skip to

Skeptic's Annotated Bible

Just have to butt in to ask - after reading Rhubarb's excellent posting about the good things of christianity - can someone explain the whole concept of loving god to me, and why that would a) be enviable and b) spur you on to do things? I can grasp the idea of faith (although I don't have any), but the whole love thing is beyond me. Is it similar to the love you have for your child/parents/dh? or totally different?