just something to share

[threeangels]

I know war has been a lot more on many minds lately. I found this sight and wanted to share it with anyone who is interested.

I also want to say that any mumsnetters who have any family members going to war along with everyone else in the world will be in my thoughts and prayers.

Are We Nearing the End Times?
Did you know all the signs Jesus said would signify His second coming are occurring in our time?
The Rev. Billy Graham, Pope John Paul II and numerous Orthodox Jewish rabbis have all said they believe that the coming of the Messiah is very near. Why? Because so many Bible prophecies are being fulfilled.

When Jesus' disciples asked what would signal His return, He gave them several signs to watch for. He also taught that the time immediately before His coming would be known as the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt. 24:8), which in English means the "onset of labor pains."

Jesus was saying the signs of His coming would start out as mild pangs spaced widely apart like human labor and then gradually become closer together and more intense, like the birth process, until this seven-year period of suffering and judgment would culminate in the coming of the Messiah.

The Signs
Consider the signs that Jesus said would be the prelude to His return and notice how they've begun to occur in our time:

False Christs The past few decades have witnessed a huge upsurge in charismatic leaders claiming to be Christ or the Jewish Messiah, including the Moonies' Rev. Sun Moon, the Buddhist Dalai Lama, the Hindu Krishnamurti, and the Bahais' Baha Ullah, to name a few. Collectively, their followers number in the u millions. . Jesus replied to them, "See that none misleads you; for many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many." Matt. 24:4,5
War War in the original Greek of Matthew 24 is ethnos, meaning ethnic or racial war. A recent editorial in Time magazine reported there are presently 67 wars being fought around the planet and most of them are ethnic wars, including the recent slaughter in Rwanda and Bosnia. According to the National Defense Council Foundation, conflicts around the globe have doubled since 1989. "... you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars..." Matt. 24:6,7
Famine The LA Times reported recently that more than one billion people suffer from serious malnutrition, exacerbated in the past months by worldwide drought. More than 35 million people living mostly in the southern states of Africa suffer from acute hunger and are threatened with imminent death. "There will be famines..." Matt. 24:7.
Pestilence The rate of infectious diseases has increased 58% since 1980, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. Diseases once considered conquered are now reappearing, sometimes in drug-resistant forms. AIDS has become a worldwide scourge, and viral diseases such as Ebola pose an international threat because of transcontinental flight. "There will be pestilences." Matt. 24:7.
Earthquakes The number of dangerous earthquakes measuring 6.0 or greater on the Richter scale has been steadily increasing since the 1950s when there were nine. In the 1960s, there were 13. In the 1970s, 51. In the 1980s, 86. In the 1990s more than100 such serious earthquakes have already been recorded, according to the LA Herald Examiner. "There will be...earthquakes in various places." Matt. 24:7.
The Seas and Waves Roaring The Associated Press reports that the most recently completed Atlantic hurricane season produced 11 hurricanes, 8 tropical storms, and $7.7 billion in damage. Serious flooding has also occurred recently in the U.S., Russia, Japan, Mexico, China, Europe, Korea, and the United Kingdom, according to Barron's. "There will be bewilderment at the roaring of the sea and waves." Luke 21:25.
Great Signs in the Heavens The 1994 comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, a string of 21 space rocks that slammed into Jupiter with the power of thousands of nuclear explosions, could be a heavenly sign. Jupiter is the mythological king of the planets and in Christian symbolism it is a representation of Christ. The 21 explosions are reminiscent of the 21 judgments that will befall Earth during the seven-year period that ushers in the coming of the Messiah, according to the Book of Revelation. The comet Hyakutake has recently lit up the night sky, and what promises to be the spectacular comet Hale-Bopp, first sighted in 1995, is scheduled to come nearest to our sun in the spring of 1997. "Great signs shall there be from heaven." Luke 21:11.
Violence Since 1960 violent crime has increased in the U.S. by 560%, according to FBI statistics, and the number of reported cases of child abuse in the U.S. has risen from 670,000 in 1976 to nearly 3 million in the 1990s. Other nations are experiencing similar dramatic increases in violent crime, reports the San Francisco Chronicle. "...as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mt. 24:37. ("And God said unto Noah, '...the earth is filled with violence...'" Gen. 6:13.)
Gospel Preached to the Whole World Pope John Paul II has traveled to 70-plus nations during his pontificate, preaching the gospel to millions. The Rev. Billy Graham recently conducted a week-long crusade from Costa Rica translated into every language on the planet and broadcast via satellite around the globe. With Communism's collapse, Christian radio and TV are now reaching into almost every nook and cranny of planet Earth. "...and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached to the whole world and then the end shall come." Mt. 24:14.
All of the signs that Jesus said would precede His return seem to be occurring in our time.

Other Prophecies Fulfilled
Other prophecies relating to this seven-year period of judgment, coming from many parts of the Bible, have also begun to be fulfilled:

Israel reborn as a nation in 1948 (Ezek. 4:3-6, Lev. 26:18)
Israel surrounded by hostile Arab countries (Psalm 83:4-8)
Jerusalem inhabited by the Jews (Luke 21:24)
Israel negotiates a peace treaty with her enemies (Daniel 9:27)
Doomsday weapons threaten earth (Joel 2:3)
Ecological devastation occurs (Rev. 11:18)
The Roman Empire revives as the European Union (Daniel 2:40-44)
Heresies become widespread (II Thess. 2:3)
Russia rises as a military power (Ezek. 38:1-12)
A hole in the ozone layer develops (Rev. 16:8.9)
TV communications are global (Revelation 11:9,10)
Satanic and cultic activity arises (I Tim. 4:1)
Sub-dermal microchips for identification purposes proposed by the U.S. military (Rev. 13:16,17)
Massive increases in wealth occur (Jas. 5:3)
GATT and World Trade Organization become possible forerunners of a world government (Rev. 13:7)
Asia possesses resources for a 200-million-man army (Rev. 9:14-16)
The Euphrates River can be dried up (Rev. 16:12-v 14) and a military highway linking Asia to the Middle East is being completed (Rev. 9:14)
Knowledge vastly increases (Dan. 12:4)
Russian and Ethiopian Jews return to Israel (Jer. 23:7,8; Zeph. 3:10)
The Hebrew language is recovered (Zeph. 3:9)
Jerusalem is rebuilt in nine specific directions (Jer. 31:38-40)
Levites and priests train for Temple service (Ezek. 43:14,15)
Israel's rainfall increases dramatically (Joel 2:23) and the country becomes fertile and blossoms (Isa. 27:6)
Men become more selfish, arrogant, abusive, ungrateful, fierce and treacherous (II Tim. 3:2,3)
Where We Fit In
Referring to these signs, Jesus said, "When these things begin to come to pass, then look up and lift up your heads, for your redemption draws near." (Luke 21:24-28).

If we are approaching that seven-year period that precedes the second coming of Christ - and all the signs indicate we are - the Bible tells us those years of judgment upon the earth will be accompanied by untold human suffering.

But believers in Christ who have sincerely placed their trust in Him can be certain of the redemption to which Jesus referred, for He promised His followers that "God has not destined us for wrath but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess. 5:9).

So where does that leave you? Are you one of God's children who's been called to believe in His Son but has rejected each invitation? Where are you going to spend the seven years of God's wrath? And the rest of eternity?

Jesus told us that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John. 3:16). But He went on to say that "...he who does not believe is already condemned because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God" (John. 3:18).

Is it too late for you to find salvation?
Not yet. God designed an "escape hatch" for us by offering His only Son to die a miserable death on a cross so that our sins could be blotted out in our Creator's sight and we could be reconciled to Him.

All we have to do is accept His Son as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. By doing this our loving Father promised that, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor heart imagined the wonderful things God has prepared for those who love Him" (1 Cor. 2:9).

Would you like to receive those "wonderful things" in the everlasting life Christ promised His followers? Do you want to know how to accept God's Son? It's simple. All you have to do is sincerely pray this prayer: "Lord Jesus, I know I'm a sinner and need Your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins and I want to turn away from my wrongdoing. Right now I'm inviting you to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You, making You my Lord and Savior. Amen."

What Next?
If you prayed this and meant it, you need to start talking to God through prayer, reading the Scriptures daily to get to know God better, and find a church where Christians like you worship Christ and where the good news of the Bible is being preached.

Remember, you are now Christ's representative to a needy world that appears to be embarking upon the period of unimaginable suffering that precedes Christ's second coming. You can help lead others to the Truth you've discovered and enable them to avoid the agony to come. Don't put this off. Today is the day of salvation. Tomorrow may be too late. God bless you on your journey.

If you would like to pursue a more in-depth study of Bible prophecy, books by Hal Lindsey, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, Peter LaLonde, and John Walvoord among others are available at most Christian bookstores.

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Other Christian Information Sites on the WWW:
ICL Net: Christian Literature on the Net
Bible Gateway
Christian Coalition Home Page
Jewish and Christian Links
Lions Den
Jack Van Impe Home Page
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Mum2boy - that was the other get-out clause I hated - 'God works in mysterious ways.' Would be used to cover anything that couldn't be explained.

Tinker, that's another born-again argument I've come across - god gets the credit for the good stuff (because you prayed) but doesn't get the blame for the bad stuff (obviously you didn't deserve to have good stuff happen to you despite praying for it).

I used to know one who would credit god for finding him a parking space...

Unfortutely Janh the bible is pretty clear on the point of entering the kingdom of Heaven. No amount of good deeds or being a really good person will get you in.

Its a big issue for me too as I am pretty much the only Christian in my family too. Many pay lip service but don't really believe.

Oh, Julie F - please - think about it....< No amount of good deeds or being a really good person will get you in.>

The mind boggles.

Haven't read the whole thread, but would add to janh's post that it is pretty clear that just being good isn't enough - you have to accept God and Jesus.

But I thought you were seeking an answer to your question Tinker....?!! I offered you an answer to your question, but then you chose to focus on how 'God moves in mysterious ways'. So what if he does??!! One thing that gets to me about people who are supposedly seeking answers, is that no answer is ever good enough for them. They simply don't want to believe, so they will argue any point just for the sake of it. Tinker, it's absolutely fine if you don't want to believe in God or the Bible - no one's forcing you to.

Of course I will argue any point for the sake of it!!!!! You haven't given an answer. I have no logical reason for believing in a god so the 'fact' that he works in mysterious ways means nothing to me, just a cop-out for the lack of argument. That is a fall back to explain the unexplainable and can get you out of any dead-end. Not a criticism of you. For me, you are believing in the unbelievable.

Tinker - I did answer your question. You asked why Mary's power of speech wasn't taken away, and I offered you an answer. That's what I'm talking about. Just because I said that things weren't done in the same way all the time, (which is fine to me - why should they be?), you chose to throw in "oh yes, that's another thing I don't like, that God moves in mysterious ways." YOU actually said that - I didn't. I offered you an explanation to your question and you chose to ignore it. Taking Jesus for an example, he healed people by touching them, breathing on them, speaking to them, and in a variety of other ways. He didn't do it the same way every time. And by the way, it is a historical fact that Jesus actually lived and was known for performing miracles, as recorded by a Jewish historian called Josephus who was alive around that time. I suppose that's open to debate to....

does that mean you can be horrible and believe in jesus and get in to heaven?
to be honest if the god and the jesus i believe in are really that small minded then they can shove it - i dont want their paradise.

honestly i cannot believe people take the bible so literally - as a point of genereal reference on how to live a good life - its a good book , has some great moralistic stories for children... but it was written by man MAN man... ok so you will argue god passed it down "through" man - pesonally i think thats bullsh&t, maybe bits ofit - but the perfect all knowing god i believe in would have written the damned thing better - clearer - so it wouldnt be open to so much interpretation.

if despite my husband beinga good kind generous person that doesnt believe in god - he doesnt go to heaven - then god can shove it where his son dont shine cos i dont wanna go. because if thats the case god is too small minded for my liking.

its like the argument that you wont go to heaven if your gay - someone shoot me - am surrounded my ar$ehol&s. so imagine a great person who does charitable things all their life, never had a bad word for anyone - they even recycle! they go to third world countries and save dying babies - they believe in god but wont go to heaven becuase.... they are gay? for goodness sake - if thats gods way - you can stick it

Message withdrawn

Bloss, I believe in God and have a good understanding of Christianity and salvation. The only thing is, I have also struggled with something that Custardo raised, which is:

Why do you think this is? I am not asking this to be argumentative at all () as I view myself as a Christian, it's just that I don't understand it and have always wondered about it. I find this problem mainly with the old testament. Why do you think God would allow his word to be obscure in parts and not make it easier for us to understand? Just interested in your viewpoint... thanks.

Hi Bloss.

So basically you're saying that belief in God is the best/wisest bet given that we're all badasses?

Find that quite un-uplifting. While I'd agree that no one's perfect, plenty of people I know are pretty fab in many and various ways and I'd be peeved if they were refused entry to heaven on the basis that they stupidly failed to grab God's hand at the right moment.

Also, I find your description of our general sinfulness a bit odd- surely there's no goodness unless you ARE tempted? I would consider someone who was seriously fighting the urge to commit adultery and beating that urge to be doing a good thing, everything else being equal. If there is no urge in the first place, they have nothing to "test" them one way or the other and so, in remaining faithful, are doing nothing good or bad but just carrying on with everyday life. Real life example: I have never, ever shoplifted, to my knowledge, mostly because it never occured to me. Most of my friends have shoplifted at some point during their lives- usually during their teens. For one of my friends it became a regular past-time and she got into quite serious trouble at one stage. It's something she has to watch out for even now because she's very tempted to swipe things whilst out shopping, though she resists. If we go out shopping together and neither of us swipe anything but for her it was a real temptation that she resisted, who's the good one? Not me, I'd say.

Bloss what do you mean whne you say: But personally I think it's a dreadful thing to believe deeply (and with massive consequences) in something false, and if it was anyone I cared about, I would certainly be concerned to get them to see its falsity.
How do you know Christianit is the truth vs otehr religions? Everyone believes their own religion to hold the truth, how do you decide which one is right?

As I see it there's no logic argument in faith, faith just IS: some people are drawn to teh religion they were taught as they grew up, others find faith somewhere else, others never fond it.

WHat I knnow is that whenever I've talked about religion with friends who believed in something, it always came down to this: faith and it just cannot explained.

I think Slug said it's like believing in fairies, and to it is, and there's no way in which you can explain your fait to me, because I'd need faith myself to understand you, and I don't have it.

You also asked where did we here the phrase God acts in mysterious ways??
AT mass all teh time, especially at funerals, when priests try to give us an improbable consolation for the loss of loved ones. You will argue this is not God's word, butthen how do we know what is? Everything has always been interpreted for him....

Go custardo!

Actually bloss, as far as I can see, Christianity is riddled with internal inconstiencies, otherwise you wouldn't need to get into such convoluted arguments about the nature of good and evil. After all when Jesus was alive (and yes, Josephus did write about his existence, but NOT about him working miracles) slavery was common and accepted. I think there is even some reference to it in the bible. So does this mean that slavery is acceptable? The bible was certainly used to justify slavery in times gone past. So what has changed? Has god changed 'his' mind? Or has man groiwn up a bit?

The reference to homosexuality is in the letters of St Paul by the way. It's one of those conundrums, if god is good but hates homosexualtiy, why did he make some people gay? In order for them to have a miserable life by denying their nature? It's not like paediphilia for example, as long as it's between consenting adults, no one gets hurt, society continues to function and it's only the busybodies who feel they have the right to dictate how we live who get their knickers in a twist. You say I therefore have NO problem with the Muslim saying straight out to me, "You are absolutely wrong on the most important of points." I DO have a problem with a Muslim (or anyone else) saying, "You are not free to make your own mistakes and must live by my rules, regardless of your belief in their truth." But isn't that what you are saying every time you support the belief that homosexuality is wrong because your god said it is.

I am not fundamentally disinterested in 'truth'. I just don't happen to think that religion is relevant at all. And actually I disagree with your point that it is easier to be an athiest. I take my morality and my thinking, not from some book that has been provided for me, but from examining my own beliefs and motivations. My philosophy on life works as a functioning whole, with space to adapt to new ideas, not from some set of stories written over 2000 years ago by a disparate group of men that I have to manipulate and twist in truly convoluted ways in order to fit into support a set of beliefs in the 21st century.

Bloss - thankyou. As always you are far more eloquent and understandable than I could ever hope to be!

liked the analogy bloss, liked it a lot it made me stop and think for quite a long time - which is a good thing.

i came to the conclusion that if your right i probly chose to drown as i think god is a self centred being - and again sorry to be deeply profound ...but he can stick it.

" ooooh mere mortal men - whom i created, worship me. whether your good or bad doesnt matter much as long as you worship me - oh everyone worship me. i ask nothing else from you just worship me"

i prefer my view of things, i prefer to think god is bigger than that and judges you on how good a life you lead, how good you are towards other people. not how much you worship him

in fact when i go to church i dont go to worship god - i go to thank god for the good life i have and to say sorry for the wrong things i have done.
i think love and worship are different and i prefer to believe that i believe in a god whom i love and who loves me - not someone to worship.

got to agree with susant though, i think the postings on here have been of a very high standard and very intellectually stimuating ( exluding mine!)

got to agree with the parking posting as well, to my utter shame when i am running late i shout" come on god give me a clue am not asking much" when i am looking for my car keys!
and my praying trivia gets more complicated than that - sometimes it hink god must be too busy to answer my small small problms so i pray to a saint or something! for goodness sake i'm terrible!

What I need to know now is where I am going to go - not hellfire and pitchforks, presumably, so what do I get, please?

Hi Threeangels if you're reading this,hope you're not leaving mumsnet-you do have friends here

janh you may get reincarnated!

Great idea! Who shall I come back as?

It is confusing when there are so many different religions around, but this again is something Jesus touched on, he said the Church would be divided. No one religion is right or perfect as all organised religions are ruled by men, who are imperfect (as opposed to women who we all know are perfect!). You can go to Church and follow their traditions all you like, but if you don't have faith it is utterly pointless. God won't be judging based on what religion you follow, he will be judging based on what is in your heart.

TBH, I would probably have a hard time believing in God if it weren't for Jesus. To me he just made so much sense! The Old Testament was written by men and women, imparting the knowledge they had from God, but it was also subject to their own personal views and opinions and a lot of it didn't make sense. The NT however is completely different, Jesus speaks with real authority, and whether or not you believe he is the son of God or some weirdo, you cannot fault what he says. This man had so much wisdom, understanding, compassion, that you simply wouldn't find in a normal man. And for so many people to believe in him, to lay down their lives for him... there has never been a man who has influenced society so much, that even 2000 years from his death, everyone knows who he was, his background, and can remember at least one of his sayings.

As for God condemning those who do not believe, that is not true. If you read Revelation it states there that during the time of Armageddon, the dead will rise, and everyone will be given the chance to repent. So you are still given a second chance, everyone is. If you can look God in the face then and still reject him, then fine, down to Hell you go! But those who do not believe, and yet still do good, well aren't they doing God's work? Even if it is not in his name, they are still fulfilling his wishes. I doubt that any good person, if they came face-to-face with God, would reject him.

It is hard sometimes to believe in everything written in the Bible. But I look around me at the harmony of nature, the food cycle, childbirth, the way our minds work on a completely different scale and level to any other animal, the way everything just seems to have its place, and I truly cannot believe all of this was the result of some 'big bang'. To me that is more illogical than believing in a God you can neither see nor hear. Yet if you do have faith, you can feel God, every now and then, I do feel him and his love. Yes it could be explained away as psychological, but there are things that have touched me in ways I cannot explain, I just know that he is near. It's a tremendous feeling. But not one you can share easily.

And Custdy, I think the Pope is well cool! So lay off or I'll set the devil onto you!

Don't mean to be picky Rhubarb, but even the NT was written by various folks (generally with their own agendas - see the epistles of St Paul) and many of them were written quite a while after Jesus died.

I too believe that he was a great man, but I find all the other stuff quite hard to swallow. Was it not possible that Jesus taught his philosophy around the idea of God, simply because that was the prevailing culture of the time? If he was around now in the UK he would probably use Genetics or the Free Market as his starting point.

i hear your great friends with the devil rhuby

and what so good about the pope anyway - and didnt he say something roten about the scottish recently?
isnt the pope supposed to be like gos on earth or something - i mean whats that about?

Lucy123, I know what you mean, but the NT is often quoting directly from Jesus himself, whereas the OT is not. Also, the Jews were expecting a great King or Warrior to overthrow the Romans and save them, after all this is often how the OT worked, with Moses leading them all to safety and the promised land. They prayed for their God to free them, so when a carpenter's son came along, of course hardly anyone took any notice! If Jesus had been a fraud, as many before and since have tried to be, would he not have made himself to be what was expected? Would he not have tried to emulate Moses? A more humble, gentler man could not be found. He knew the Scriptures in great detail, even when just a boy he dumbfounded the Scribes in the Temple. Where did he get all this knowledge from? It is doubtful that his mother and father even knew how to read back then - this was reserved for the wealthy. Why did Joseph not leave Mary when he found out she was with child that was not his? There is so much to go into about Jesus' life, such as his birth and life fulfilling scriptures so perfectly, the miracles he performed that were witnessed by many, etc. There has been no-one like him before nor since.

Custdy, the Pope's comments were aimed at the Scottish bishops not working hard enough for their parishes, and they agreed with him! He is very anti-war and had to be persuaded to meet the PM, he has mended many many more fences than any other Pope has, admitted more wrongs and apologised more times, and has paved the way for a joining together of all the major Christian Churches. I have immense respect for him and his mind - but then I know you love him really, you want his picture on your wall don't you? You phone the Pope 'PrayerLine' every day don't you? You Pope-lover in disguise you!