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Original poster

War - what does it really mean ?

271 replies

Tillysmummy · 18/03/2003 09:50

Im feeling very worried and sad about this today. Is anyone else feeling like this - silly question im sure most people are. I am very nervous about the implications. Its amazing how since having my daughter all these emotions and fears are heightened I guess out of an instinct to protect her.
I'd be very interested in other's opinions and feelings.

OP posts:
hmb · 20/03/2003 08:02

ks,

Saddam Hussain ordered the arrest, torture and death of a well known female radio journalist. After ger death her tongue was cut out and was sent to her family. Her 'crime' was to say that Saddam Hussains wife wan't fit to be the wife of the leader of the Iraqi people. If Tony Blair is a dictator, could you please supply mumsnet with a list of the journalists that he has tortured and killed for saying nasty things about his wife? This is one tiny example of the differences between a dictatorship and a democracy. Open your eyes. We have the freedom to protest a war, the Iraqis don't. But with luck they soon will. Shame the bombs didn't hit him last night, then it would have been all over, and only the guilty would have died.

breeze · 20/03/2003 08:02

I would like to take this opportunity to send out my thoughts to all those who have family and friends over there. Thinking of them all, I can not begin to imagine what you are all going through.

hmb · 20/03/2003 08:05

Thank you breeze, your kind comment helped a lot this morning. I've just had to explain what is going on to my Dd (6). She coped with it better than I did I think.

Gracie · 20/03/2003 08:12

I dread to think how Asylum seekers would be treated in this country if government decisions were based on public opinion. Rule by Sun readers? no thanks.

Gracie · 20/03/2003 08:12

I dread to think how Asylum seekers would be treated in this country if government decisions were based on public opinion. Rule by Sun readers? no thanks.

ks · 20/03/2003 08:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

hmb · 20/03/2003 08:28

Applogies ks I mixed you up with sml2 who said

'Tigger is right. The system of government we have in the UK is dictatorship with an elected front man. Democracy means more than just a limited choice about which out of a small selection of parties to vote for once every five years.'

Croppy · 20/03/2003 08:37

Yes, I was referring to sml. Should have made it clear.

mum2toby · 20/03/2003 08:38

I want to add to Breeze's comments that our thought s are with the troops in the Gulf and also to the innocent people in Iraq. I think this is all awful and nearly cried when I heard on the news this morning about the air strikes.

I am sad that this is in our name.... to any Iraqi people reading this... THIS IS NOT WHAT I WANTED TO HAPPEN! This is NOT in my name.

I hope this is swift and precise and civilian casualties non-existant.

Croppy · 20/03/2003 08:47

mum2toby, it is estimated that 0.1% of people in Iraq have access to the Internet(as is usual for dictatorships) so the only Iraqi's likely to see this are the ones lucky enough to have escaped.

Bozza · 20/03/2003 09:30

Although I have already apologised for upsetting hmb - I would like to also apologise for upsetting the rest of you and especially Gosh2. Maybe I was insensitive but I actually made my comment in response to Jzee's mentioning sadness for the troops - ie although I had concern for the troops I also had even more concern for the Iraqi children.

I do feel for everyone involved - and, of course, I realise that all of your children (Hmb, Gosh2, seahorse etc) are equally as innocent, in this mess, as the Iraqi children. (Gosh2 I hope I'm not being pedantic in saying I mentioned troops not troops families).

Thank you to Tinker and Megg - yes you interpreted my comments correctly.

Gosh2 please do not let my comments put you off Mumsnet. You have received loads of messages of support on this thread alone and I know there is an Army Wives thread on the go.

mum2toby · 20/03/2003 09:39

Croppy - don't know why you feel the need to add that comment, but I work with a few Iraqi's in the UK and I can tell you that they DO have access to the Internet. But thanks for feeling the need to point that out to me.

happydays · 20/03/2003 09:43

Of come on, we do not need this thread turning into a fight too, I like mum2toby know of some Iraqi's too (through work) and they have access to the internet, I am sure that if even if one person had seem that then it was worth mum2toby putting that comment, leave the poor girl alone.

Philippat · 20/03/2003 09:52

Lil, don't worry, I don't mind you being opinionated! (but I do think this is now a subject close enough to home that we should respect each other better than we sometimes do on mumsnet) Here you go. www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm (sorry, links still beyond me). I wouldn't consider that chld deaths by sanctions are all western fault though, as I said below, the blame must be shared. Scary mortality rate, though - I'd hate to give birth in a country where there was a good chance either I or my baby would die. But still not a good reason for war IMHO.

Croppy · 20/03/2003 09:55

If you read my message, I was referring to people "in Iraq". So unless you two work in Baghdad, the Iraqi's you are ferring to as I say, the ones "lucky enough to have escaped". What on earth did you think I was saying? That Iraqi's are somehow implanted with a chip which denies them access to the Internet?

mum2toby · 20/03/2003 10:01

Ditto Croppy - if you had read MY message I didn't specifically send my message to people IN Iraq, just to Iraqi people in general and your 'statistics' were argumentative and uncalled for.... and still are!

susanmt · 20/03/2003 10:05

I feel sympathy for tha troops in the Gulf and for their families, But this does not mean that I need to support what they are doing, as I beleive what they are doing is wrong. I hope and pray casualties are as light as possible and that it is over as soon as possible and that everyone is home as soon as possible, but I still don't support what is being done. My brother in the RAF phoned this mornig to say he has been placed on 48hr notice. If he goes, then I will worry terribly and pray for his safe return, but I still do not support what he will be doing.
I think we need to make a distinction between supporting the troops and supporting the action they are taking.

Croppy · 20/03/2003 10:12

Well as Iraqi's living outside Iraq are on the whole thought to be supportive of the war or at least evenly split, it wasn't unreasonable to assume that your message was directed at those still in the country.

Philippat · 20/03/2003 10:15

Sorry, shouldn't bring it down to this level, but can't resist the thought of those 22,000 (on Croppy's estimate) Iraqis in Iraq who DO have internet access - presumably mostly government and army officials - logging on to mumsnet. Is THAT how they knew where to send the cruise missiles this morning? Mind you, if only they did, then there'd be no war.

breeze · 20/03/2003 10:18

Does it really matter, look at what is happening today, the war is so sad for all the innocent people involved. I am sure the people who families are out there are getting a more than a bit fed up with the sillyness that it going on with regard to this subject.

Croppy · 20/03/2003 10:19

Funny you should say that Philippa, I was enjoying the mental image of Saddam's top military brass picking up new ideas for their toddler's lunchboxes at the same time as keeping an eye on what the infidels are thinking....

GeorginaA · 20/03/2003 10:23

Agree with Iraqi's having access to the internet - actually there was a recent outcry that the points they are connected to the world wide web are companies in the UK and US which technically isn't allowed by sanctions.

mum2toby · 20/03/2003 10:27

Slightly inappropriate to be mocking what I thought was a serious, genuine and heart felt message to people who's families are most probably still in Iraq.

Croppy · 20/03/2003 10:33

Yes that's right Georgina, the main reason why Iraqi's don't have access to the global internet is because ISP are banned from providing services under sanctions. Separately, though Saddam has barred access to the Internet, only allowing access to the country's own internal Internet. As I understand it, Iraqi's are also not allowed to have email accounts with international ISP's.

Philippat · 20/03/2003 10:48

mum2toby, you're right, I knew I shouldn't have said it, tend to try and look for the silver lining wherever. As I'm sure you realise by now, it's not done in my name either.

But I still think a world where all leaders read mumsnet would be a better place! Give 'em a place to slag each other off and lots of good advice... Actually, to be honest, a world where all leaders were mums would be good enough...