War - what does it really mean ?

[Tillysmummy]

Im feeling very worried and sad about this today. Is anyone else feeling like this - silly question im sure most people are. I am very nervous about the implications. Its amazing how since having my daughter all these emotions and fears are heightened I guess out of an instinct to protect her.
I'd be very interested in other's opinions and feelings.

Lil, hun, wouldn't it be very boring if u and I agreed on Tony!!!!

Robin Cook, does resemble a weasel doesn't he, my DH would say "a disgrace to a * Scotsman!!, that Robin Cook" DH does have a lovely way with words sometimes.

I've just seen on teletext the Home Office is advising 'suitable precautions' in the event of a terrorist attack in the UK - blankets, food provisions (although not to panic buy), bottled water and battery operated torches at hand. Am I the only one who is doing a 'normal' shop this week? Do feel very emotional today but then have been reading much more war material than ever before, in the past few weeks I have been happy to be ignorant and to bury myself in mumsnet and holidays and sick children - long may that continue .......

Robin Cook has always been a weasel but have to say his resignation sppech was fantastic. I finally understood why he has always been described as clever. Tony's always fancied himself as president! When's he ever listened to anyone? Have absolutely no idea where he thinks he's getting his madate from for this. Just hope it's all over quickly and neatly without some humanitarian disaster. Feel sorry for the troops and their families (first conflict we haven't had family taking part) but also feel awful for 'normal" Iraqi families who are going to be blitzed through absolutely no fault of their own. Horrible.

rosehip- think that's called propaganda. The phoney war has been running for a while. How fortunate I bought a wind up torch last year. And no I will not be stockpiling water. The most paranoid person I know is dh and grew up in Belfast!

Philipat - many apologies for coming across as opiniated. Lil is my alter-ego i'm afraid, she does get a bit lary. In real life she spends her time balancing on the fence!

Tigger is right. The system of government we have in the UK is dictatorship with an elected front man. Democracy means more than just a limited choice about which out of a small selection of parties to vote for once every five years.

Democracy means "rule by the people".
If the UK was a democracy we wouldn't be at war because there is a clear majority of the people against it.

You can argue perfectly logically that democracy is chaotic, and our system is better.

Bozza your comments made my cry. None of us want a war, but sometimes it is inevitable. The fact is the decision has been made, we must be behind our troops. Your comments about having more sympathy for Iraqi children than our troops make me feel sick.

DH is in the army and we know many many people out there.

I would love you to say your views in front of my friends, they would just laugh at you. I find what you said unbelievable and hope you are ashamed of yourself.

When I told 2 army friends today, they couldnt believe it. Innocent troops are about to be killed, why on earth wouldnt you give some thought to them and their families.

Your comments make me question if I am getting anything out of this website anymore.

Bozza I am just worried about our friends who are out there - and yes some wont return.

You have been really helpful in other threads.

Sorry about delay in adding this, in middle of hectic bathtime.

xxx

hmb and gosh2 and anyone else with familiy involved. I do understand how you feel as I had family in the last Gulf war and the the Falklands, and I truly know how completely awful it is, but that is partly why I am against this one. British troops will be killed/injured- for what? Bush's campaign. I hope to god casulaties are light - and they probably will be- I suspect the Iraqi army will surrendour as soon as they have the chance- they probably won't even be fed or properly clothed, but I truly believe that even one British life (or American, or Polish, or civilian Iraqi) for Bush to play power games is too much. Lives for fiddling in middle eastern politics- I would be happier if Blair, Bush and Clare Short(!) were standing on the front line. If they're so keen on fighting they should do it! (Simplistic view granted). And as for Cherie blubbing about her boy being away from home for the first time- all very moving but what about those poor Mum's who's boys are at the front. Think I'd rather be in a flat in Bristol bought for me by my Mum.

gosh2, mindless patriotism should be confined to football matches. We should judge the rights and wrongs of wars objectively, not based on our nationality.

Objectively, I agree with what Bozza posted.

gosh - puzzled by your comments. Bozza just said she felt more sympathy/concern/anguish concern. The UK/US forces are, after all, volunteers. She didn't say, as I don't think anyone has, that she didn't feel any sympathy etc.

sml2

nice to be a position where any of this doesn't affect you personally so you are in the enviable position of being able to view it 'objectively' - the Iraqi people aren't in such a lucky position and neither are US/UK troops and their families.

Tinker

I'm deeply saddened that you apply the logic that since troops are volunteers then you have less sympathy for their deaths than others. Pursuing this logic I assume you had less feelings over military deaths in previous wars than you do in this one. Soldiers do not make decisions over whether to go to war - politicians do and you and me vote for them to make such decisions.

sml2 - where do you get the idea that a clear
majority of people in this country are against war? As far as I know, a referendum has not been held on the subject, and there are over 55m people in Britain, so the million or so who marched do not constitute a majority.
seaorse, hmb, gosh2, I do hope everything is OK for your family and friends.

Seahorse, its awful for any family if someone dies whether they're civilian or forces. At the end of the day forces personnel choose that career, they know the risks involved, they know they could be called on in case of war. As Tinker says Bozza didn't say she didn't have any sympathy, I think its more a case of the civilians don't ask for any of this whereas the forces personnel choose their career and expect there to be dangers. I hope you know what I'm trying to say although I'm not doing a very good job of it. My dp is in the Navy but we're lucky that he's shore based at the minute and won't be called on. He did go to Bosnia which was worrying enough. Hope you're keeping busy and managing to carry on as normally as possible. I know what its like to be on your own, of the 3 years our ds has been alive dp has been away for 2 years on and off. Luckily ds just takes it in his stride when daddy is away now I think it helps having a constant at home (ie me).

sml 2,
I think you should count yourself very lucky that there are good men and women out there who are prepared to risk their lives for their country...and, yes, that includes you, your children and the rest of your loved ones. To call that mindless patriotism is really showing ignorance. I too hate the idea of war, not only because dh is in the army, but because I could scream when I think about the threat to ALL involved, both military and civilian. Wouldn't it be nice if Saddam could show such concern for his own people instead of subjecting them to fear and torture? To hmb, seahorse, gosh2 and all out there who have loved ones involved in whatever capacity, lots of love.

HI all
I am really scared, my dh is working night shift and it is apparently could happen at 1am.
tillysmummy I too feel protective of my two, hope if it does happen it is over very quickly with minimal casulties.
I wouldn't like to be prime minister what a decision to have to make, I do think we are up americas arse too much

KS

I was trying to say that some of the posted views seem to imply they would have lots of sympathy for military deaths in a war they considered 'justified' than they would do over military deaths in this war. It just came out back to front in my last posting - sorry!

My opinion is that simply taking the view that the military are volunteers and therefore their deaths should not mean as much - as they should expect to die - is ill thought out. Military personnel are instructed to do the politicians bidding and we should be equally saddened by their deaths as anyone elses.

sml2

"mindless patriotism should be confined to football matches. We should judge the rights and wrongs of wars objectively, not based on our nationality. "

what does this mean?

when someones DH doesnt come home - will I tell her that to comfort her?

none of us are on for this war, but we must give support to the troops out there. Can you for one second imagine the fear they must feel? and the things they are going to see?

Your support is hillarious.

Anyone who thinks that the UK is a dictatorship should try and live in a real dicatatorship and see how they get on. What a joke.

And I for one am very glad that we don't have a government that takes decisions on the basis of public opinion. If we did, the UK would have capital punishment. Sml, would be interested to see your list of countries which aren't dictatorships based on those grounds.