Do children's shoe designers live in cloud cuckoo land?

[Tigermoth]

Imagine for a minute that you are a children's shoe designer. Dark leather shoes and boots for the winter, you've got all that pretty much all sewn up. For the warmer months, however, your mind and reality apparently part company.

Your market: Primary school children.

Your brief: To design trainers that don't cost an arm and a leg, last long enough for the child to grow out of them, can cope with the rigours of ordinary playground activity and are a comfortable on warm days, with adequate protection from summer rain, and a good fit.
They don't have to have the latest logo either.

Surely not that impossible, given all the materials and technical wizardry that goes into designing the vast range trainers for adults?

So what do you come up with? My perusal around 10 (count them) shoe shops ranging from good old Clarkes to the dreaded JR Sports threw up the following offerings from you shoe desgners:

You pick white as your base colour. Especially white soles. Ignoring the fact that puddles and mud feature heavily in any English summer. You make the majority of the trainers with an under-reinforced toe area. After all, it's only a minority of children who ever kick a ball, ride a bike, or accidently scuff their trainers, isn't it? You pick suede, suede-a-like and lycra-like fabrics rather than tough, easy-to-clean leather. After all, most parents love the excuse to take their child shopping for new trainers every eight weeks, don't they?

Don't these shoe designers and manufactureres have children? Is it too much to expect a pair of trainers to come in at well under £30.00, last at least 4 months and still look reasonable? All my son really wants is a pair of trainers to run around in. He's not trying to make a fashion statement. I have hunted down the odd pair that fit the above criteria, but they are few and far between. Asking shoe shop assistants over this weekend for trainers, size 1 any colour but white met with the reoccuring answer: "sorry we only have white ones left, the darker coloured ones go really quickly" Am I missing something here?

Before anyone suggests I go to Adams, Mothercare etc for off the peg trainers, my son has a slightly wider foot than average, so these ones, I find, are usually too narrow. Anyway, I like the reassuring presence of a trained shoe shop assistant to hand, even when my son is trying on the dismal choice of trainers that we inevitably get presented with.

Am I alone in this? Is this a problem for anyone else?

Tigermoth, I could not agree more about childrens shoe designers. I am afraid that it doesn't get any easier. My daughter has always loved shoes but even when she was four or five years of age it would have been easy to spend several hundreds of pounds on shoes each year! But at least when she was that age we could agree on the shoes that she wears. Now at the ripe old age of eleven and with size 5 feet it is a nightmare. Why do every pair of school shoes for girls have a huge, highly impractical heal? I have completely given up on trailing the shops for her shoes as it is always such a stressful experience (although I agree children do ideally need their feet measured). However, I have resorted to buying shoes mail order en masse and returning all that are unsuitable. It seems a little extreme but it means my daughter gets a say but also we are not influenced by what all the other children in the shop are craving. Sorry no solutions but lots of sympathy!

Thanks to that highly efficient company B.T. NOT!!! I have been left with no phone or internet access for four days and I've really missed reading all the messages. Now all of a sudden I keep finding discussions I want to join in and my hubby and I were having this very gripe the other day about ridiculous childrens shoes.I like my children to wear "sensible" shoes to school not ones with high heels or wedges but even good old Clarks have nothing but these to offer these days. I live in a very small town with one shoe shop in it so I have to make a 50mile round trip to anywhere of any size to find any decent shoe shops and then when I get there I find it's more of the same! I usually resort to buying expensive makes in the sales as I resent having to pay £40 plus for shoes that will be out-grown in no time and cannot bear the ordeal of taking the children with me. One is fairly easy to please but the other would happily go around in the most ugly and unsuitable shoes she could find. Why do schools let these kids get away with wearing these shoes? and more to the point how the hell do they survive a whole day of walking around in them?! I recently witnessed a girl of about 11 fall off a pavement and get run over by a reversing car because she couldn't walk in the shoes she had on. Oh god I'd better shut up or I could go on all night about peer pressure and the way other peoples morals and ideas are inflicted on my children against my wishes!!

Know anyone that's going to the good ole USA?Great, cheap, wide trainers from places like Walmart and K Mart (English and USA kids sizes are the same) adults different. Mine has a wide foot and a high instep so most of the time the velcro isn't long enough!

Anyone tried Brantano, if you've got one nearby, most of the kids shoes are under £30, and quite a few wide fitting as well.

Rhiannon, I don't think that English and US kids sizes are the same, I think the US are 1 -1.5 sizes smaller than ours.

Tigermoth, you're not alone, and I agree with the other comments especially about the high heels. But Clarks do have trainers in black for boys at least, and under £30. I got some there anyway. Mind you Clarks do have a tendency to run out of the size you want at any particular time. Plus my son has always succeeded in destroying them before he has grown out of them even though he doesn't even play football in the schoolyard!

My shoe gripe is the way they all seem to want you to buy kids shoes in advance! For the last 2 years I have been in the unlucky position of trying to buy sandals in July or August - no chance, all the shoe shops round us put all sandals in the sales at the end of June, the only things you can buy are black school shoes - great to go with those pretty little dresses for a wedding. I'm now trying to decide whether I should get sandals now for when we go away in August, as this seems to be the only time you get any choice, but I know if I get them to fit now, one of them will grow, and if I get them a size too big, they'll resolutely stay the same as they are now (my kids feet always grow a full shoe size in about 3 weeks, luckily they only do it every 6 - 12 months, but it's impossible to tell when.

Winnie, I too have been down the catalogue route. The trainer selection is pretty good compared to the average shop. But working full time means the inevitable returns are a hassle, since I'm limited to evening, rather than daytime courier collection. Having boys, I will not be facing the high heels problem, but the designs of these shoes for young girls shocks me, too! (Oh dear I sound very over-40 don't I?).

Alisa, Where's Brantano? please do you know if there is one in South East London?

Numbat, I often resort to Clarkes but this time round there were no black trainers in my son's size - and we're talking about a big branch.Is it my imagination or do Clarkes etc seem to produce more black trainers for autumn rather than spring/summer? Also, what about all the other colours of the spectrum that are so neglected? Do children sport unremittingly black clothing in the summer?? What about leather trainers in other practical colours like brown? khaki? marine blue(apologies to SML)? or preferably combinations thereof? Trainers like this do exist of course, but they are not the norm, are they?

Debsb, I too have resorted to buying childrens shoes in advance - to my cost. We really shouldn't have to do this should we. Surely parents of young children make up a considerable proportion of the shoe-buying public.After all, our children's feet are growing so rapidly and this, plus their active lives, means their shoes have to be bought regulary. So why aren't we better catered for?

Tigermoth

Go to the Brantano website, address below, they have a list of all their UK locations, along with their address, telephone number and opening hours.

www.brantano.com/Urgentneed/default.htm

They stock just about any style of shoe/trainer that you want, from those awful wedges to the more traditional shoes (Clarks & Hush Puppies). Once I discovered Brantano I gave up wandering the streets of my local high street, and head straight for them.

Ailsa, sorry tried the .com for brantano, but it's www.brantano.co.uk. Right off for a look now, just check that the worse half is not about!

Tigger,

That's weird because I copied the address straight from the address box on the toolbar!!

tigermoth, have you tried sport soccer? you may not get width fittings but they do decent velcro trainers, in black, for £12...that's donnay - they also have all the other (sporty) brands but they're dearer OF COURSE!! the donnay ones seem to be on the wider side of average.
they are coated leather too. i know that's a bit sweaty but it's better than plastic.

I'd forgotten about Sport Soccer, in our house we're known as 'donnay family'!!!!!

ailsa, i'll look out for you, we are too! we do occasionally buy labels but i'm quite happy with donnay.
i did get 2 brilliant pairs of trainers for me though from the random piles of boxes on the floor - white nikes and black reeboks, £15 each. can't do much better than that!!!!

Thanks Ailsa and Tigger for the Brantano tip. I visited the website and the concept sounds good. Unfortunately the nearest branch is in that quiet Essex village - Lakeside. Never mind, can't be more stressful than its lovely sister, Bluewater.

Janh thanks for the Sport Soccer advice. It's the right sounding name to impress my 7-year old, so that's a good start.

13H. Pray long and hard that your child never has this shoe size.

A Clarkes 'H' is the broadest width fitting. So off-the-peg shoes are out. Walk past sports shops, too. Nike, Reebok and all those other wantable sports makes that give children street cred in the playgrourd have a 99% chance of being too tight.

You are left with good, reliable, Clarkes own brand - or similar - but don't think your troubles are over.

After spending yet another futile 3-hour shoe shopping trip at Bluewater, our nearest large shopping centre, again we admitted defeat. To begin with we cast our net widely. Any trainers from any shop. Most shops had sold out of all trainers in size 13 or 1, so we didn't even get to the fitting stage. In the Russel and Bromley shop the same sad news was imparted after a half hour of clutching a ticket and queing. Older son and I felt like joining the two-year in his screaming fit.

Clarkes was our only hope. Again asked for any trainer, any colour- as long as they fitted. NOTHING doing. I asked why this was, and now know why 13H is an unlucky number for a foot:

We were told that parents of 'H' fitting children regularly phone up to check on the daily delivery of shoes. They then reserve any 'H' sizes over the phone. Demand far exceeds supply. People even bulk buy. So much for bringing your child with you for a leisurely trying on of shoes. And if, like me, you work, you are faced with the prospect of buying your reserved shoes (held for 24 hours only) without your child on tow. Thereby negating the final fitting check by the assistant.

Apparently Clarkes HQ have had masses of irate parents on the phone in the last few months. I joined them. Clarkes say they are reviewing their fittings and MAY be bringing our more wide-fitting shoes later on. However it costs £15,000 to make each new lathe, and the H fitting is still for a minority.

What's more only ONE trainer style is ever produced in an H fitting. In two choices of colour: mostly white or mostly black. Ahh!! No wonder I can never get more interesting-coloured trainers for my son.

Clarkes found a pair for me at a nearby shop. I have reserved them and have to collect them tomorrow by 12.00 am. I daren't tell you at which branch, in case you sweet talk the assistant and get them before me. These may be the only trainers in SE London that will fit my son.

I suggest if you have an H fitting child, you get onto Clarkes right away!!

PS Please spare a thought for my son. He did something really noble. At we ended our shoppoig trip, we made one last visit, at my son's request, to a sports shoe shop. Lo and behold a pair of very trendy Nikes fitted him!! I passed the cash over the counter while my son did a victory circuit round the shop in his new footwear. Then he stopped and said, quietly. Sorry mum, they're too tight. A further check by the assistant confirmed this, so it was off with the the new shoes and back to his falling apart old boats. He said he didn't want me to waste money and be cross.

He hates shoe shopping as much as me, and it would have been so easy to walk away with these trainers. I did so admire his honesty.

tigermoth, you poor thing, and your poor son, what a rotten way to waste a day! how can they say H is a minority fitting when so many people are going through all that to get it?

did you try sports soccer? were the donnay trainers not wide enough?

anyway i hope the pair you have found are ok!

Thanks for the sympathy, JanH. After our shopping trip we were both feeling very sorry for ourselves and the 2-year old was yowling to high heaven.

Yes we have tried Sports Soccar and Donnay shoes. No good. It is just so difficult to judge whether any ordinary trainer makes are likely to fit broad feet, since the tiny range you get presented with is ususally so dismal to begin with.

I estimate that we have spent over two whole days of futile shoe shopping this year. Isn't this a stupid waste of time? Has anyone else had this problem?

I've a good mind to print out this messge board and send a copy to Clarkes.

We have problems getting narrow width fittings for my girls. The shops are always 'sold out' of them, which makes me wonder why they don't stock more in the first place. The order service takes about three weeks, which can mean your child wandering around in too small shoes for that length of time. As for trainers, my younger son takes a 13 adult size and nowhere stocks them. Special order only at 20-30% extra cost. Grrrr. Shoe shopping makes my heart sink.

Tigermoth, my DS not only has wide feet but a high instep too. We have a standing joke to chuck away the shoes and keep the boxes! We always end up buying a larger size so they are wide enough. Quite often the velcro strap isn't long enough to go round.

School plimsolls! Ha Ha, he's a 13.5 H and his new Clarks pumps are a 2.5 as we had to go that big to get them on, apparently he won't trip over I have been assured!

I have the same problem and buy shoes from a nerdy catalogue or from Evans as they do wide shoes. I am waiting for the mens shop that starts to sell loafers in lurid colours and I'll be there buying armfulls!

Good idea about getting jeans from Holland, SueW! I think the Dutch have the tallest average height of all nationalities in the world. There are quite a few Dutch people where I live and they're easy to spot, being literally head and shoulders above everyone else!!

Tigermoth that's awful ! This thread fills me with horror as my daughter has very wide feet with narrow heels and spent most of Tuesday morning trying on pair after pair to no avail. She's not yet 2 so from what you've all said it will only get worse ! Eventually we left the shop with a too large pair of 'Doodles' because she needs to wear something ! The only pair which were anything like OK were black patent with suede cherries on the top - hardly ideal for August (and would have meant a call from the bad taste police..)
I'm definitely with Tigermoth on her idea of sending a copy of this discussion to Clarks.

And aren't all the new shoes for Autumn from Clarks HIDEOUS? Where are the nice plain T-bar styles? WHY are they all covered in glitter and cherries and flowers (I'm talking girls here!)? WHY are they all HORRIBLE PATENT LEATHER. I HATE THEM and it makes me very cross as Clarks have got a stranglehold on the market - there is nowhere else near me that sells fitted shoes for kids. Does anyone know if you can buy StartRite over the web?

Well, at last we found a pair. Hi Techs, a pair from a range that is, I was told, usually wide fitting. So good news for you, possibly, Rhiannon.
Wwhat's more they cost an unbelievable £12.99.

Just a passing thought. I wonder how Clarkes sales literature is worded? To my mind, one of their major selling points is the fact that their children's shoes come in a very wide range of sizes. Otherwise, what's the good of all that expert fitting ?

I wonder if this follows the trades descriptions act?

Unfamiliar computer, so short message.