Do children's shoe designers live in cloud cuckoo land?

[Tigermoth]

Imagine for a minute that you are a children's shoe designer. Dark leather shoes and boots for the winter, you've got all that pretty much all sewn up. For the warmer months, however, your mind and reality apparently part company.

Your market: Primary school children.

Your brief: To design trainers that don't cost an arm and a leg, last long enough for the child to grow out of them, can cope with the rigours of ordinary playground activity and are a comfortable on warm days, with adequate protection from summer rain, and a good fit.
They don't have to have the latest logo either.

Surely not that impossible, given all the materials and technical wizardry that goes into designing the vast range trainers for adults?

So what do you come up with? My perusal around 10 (count them) shoe shops ranging from good old Clarkes to the dreaded JR Sports threw up the following offerings from you shoe desgners:

You pick white as your base colour. Especially white soles. Ignoring the fact that puddles and mud feature heavily in any English summer. You make the majority of the trainers with an under-reinforced toe area. After all, it's only a minority of children who ever kick a ball, ride a bike, or accidently scuff their trainers, isn't it? You pick suede, suede-a-like and lycra-like fabrics rather than tough, easy-to-clean leather. After all, most parents love the excuse to take their child shopping for new trainers every eight weeks, don't they?

Don't these shoe designers and manufactureres have children? Is it too much to expect a pair of trainers to come in at well under £30.00, last at least 4 months and still look reasonable? All my son really wants is a pair of trainers to run around in. He's not trying to make a fashion statement. I have hunted down the odd pair that fit the above criteria, but they are few and far between. Asking shoe shop assistants over this weekend for trainers, size 1 any colour but white met with the reoccuring answer: "sorry we only have white ones left, the darker coloured ones go really quickly" Am I missing something here?

Before anyone suggests I go to Adams, Mothercare etc for off the peg trainers, my son has a slightly wider foot than average, so these ones, I find, are usually too narrow. Anyway, I like the reassuring presence of a trained shoe shop assistant to hand, even when my son is trying on the dismal choice of trainers that we inevitably get presented with.

Am I alone in this? Is this a problem for anyone else?

Thanks, Jj, I'll have a look!

Sorry - clicked too soon there. Thanks for all the other suggestions too. It's a relief to know I don't have the only small boy in the world who tells everyone that his favourite colours are purple and pink and red - because he gets some very odd looks when he says so and I get very narked on his behalf! Why shouldn't boys like colour and texture and pattern? Where do dress designers come from, after all?

I had another fruitless foray for shoes today. My DD needed an 'E' fitting in JLP, whereupon I was informed they don't have any 'E' width shoes, don't know when they will receive an order and don't know if it will include any 'E's. I'm afraid I rather sarcastically asked the fitter if that meant they are in fact a shoe department that doesn't sell shoes. She meekly agreed with me.

Now, I've got to brave the Christmas crowds on Saturday to search out somewhere that has 'E' fittings. Oh, and a friend who has recently experienced similar problems was informed that 'shoes are in short supply, due to the events of Sept 11th'!!!

Suedomum, let your fingers do the walking. Saturday! shoe shopping!! near christmas!! on the off chance!!!! is a complete no no. Why not phone round to enquire what shops stock E fittings then reserve some in your daughter's size for colection tomorrow? If they don't fit you can always say no. At least it gives you a head start.

Thanks, Tigermoth. I had actually thought of doing that, but then got waylaid, wrapping Christmas presents (that should have been sent abroad weeks ago) and life in general. It'll be interesting to see if they answer the phones!!

I know I'm adding something a bit late here, but here it goes!

My son is three (just) and yesterday I had to endure a very nice lady telling me that due to the size of his feet he would have to wear school style shoes. He has 9G feet and I wanted a single bar of velcro so he could take them off and put them on himself.

Am I asking too much from Start Rite, or from anyone else for that matter. I don't want him to look like a seven year old instead of his real age, it feels like we have missed all the nice shoes. Sorry about moaning, but I remember having to wear ghastly shoes when I was younger and I don't want it to happen to him.

BTW they did have a pair, boots, with a racing car at the end of the velcro strap, but I got the feeling that they felt I should have bought a nice plain shoe. Does anyone else feel like this?

Phew, I managed to get a pair of Startrites for DD today. I went to an independent shop, where the staff were incredibly helpful and even had money off, so the shoes were 'only' £25.

TIGERMOTH, A MESSAGE FOR YOU.

As the Easter hols approach I'm on the hunt for the elusive school sandal! Navy or black for a high instep, need to be v. wide. If you find any or any wide black plimsolls all in a size 1 or 1.5 please let me know. R

I dream of wide black plimsols, Rhiannon! Will let you know if I stike it lucky.

For the moment we've actually solved our shoe problems!!! I am now taking the lead from my son, not a sales assistant. Typical shopping trip: We go to Clarkes. My son gets his feet properly measured. He tries on the 'correct' shoes. He tells me they hurt and needs a bigger size. The assistant insists these are the best size for him. My son gets stroppy. We go to a cheap shoe shop. He gets any old pair of trainers or shoes straight off the rack. Average price £7.99. He tries on a size bigger than that recommended by the Clarkes assistant. They fit. He is happy, I am happy

Sorry I'm a bit late noticing this discussion. I see there has been no response from Clarks. I made a complaint by e-mail to them myself about two weeks ago. My 3 year old ds' feet are not too unusual size 9 and usually an F or G fitting (although I do sympathise with you Fairy, I have the same problem in getting little boy's shoes in this size rather than school type shoes). I have discovered that Clarks seem almost incapable of measuring my son's feet. I was told by my local store in December that he needed size 9 1/2G shoes and thankfully I didn't buy them there and then as a few days later when I visited another store they told me his shoes were fine, plenty of growing room. Now three months on his shoes are still fine. I actually think we have been sold shoes that are too big in the past. Clarks only response was that I should visit the store where I felt I received the best advice (thought their fitters were supposed to be trained to the same high standards), all very well but the store that offered the best advice is 45 miles away (and who says I will meet the same fitter) and my local Clarks is 5 mins walk from the back door and they would have been happy for me to spend money on shoes in December when were not needed. Unfortunately there is not a huge choice of shoe shops in the town, Clarks being the only decent (if that can be said) shoe shop in the town for kids. I have tried Next in the past and if you ask one of the assistants in the childrens' department they can help you with shoe fitting and certainly in my experience have been quite good, they have advised that a shoe does not fit properly even although I had not noticed this and it would mean them missing out on a sale. Unfortunately they do not do half sizes or widths so are not always able to help.

Maybe you should consider trying another shoe shop. IME I have found that shops vary dramatically in the service they offer and I have found that you can have your child's feet measured in three different shops only to find they all measure them as a different size.
Ask around, especially Mums with older kids, get some recommendations of shops a little further afield.
I have found that the shops with the more mature shop assistants seem to be more thorough. I will not take my two anywhere else than a shop in Buckingham, they will not sell a shoe that does not fit and I have witnessed them telling a stroppy teenager exactly that!! They will even stretch a shoe for you to try and get you a few more weeks out of it! They also stock several makes of shoe!
I have found that Clarks fit my ds better than any other make but they do not fit dd - she has to have either Startrite or Elefanten - maybe your child's feet do not suit Clarks shoes.

Tigermoth, I had a run-in with Clarks yesterday and it reminded me of this thread. Did you ever have any response from Clarks ?

I hate Clarks. The shoes are naff and horribly designed, the fitting service is a joke. We have Clarks village near us which is a factory shop and it is without a doubt the most depressing experience on earth.

I will never go there again after seeing the shoes that my 3.5 year old was expected to wear. And they measured her feet but then said that she had to try lots of different sizes in each style to find the one that didn't slip up and down. What a rip off!

Luckily there is also a Buckle my Shoe factory shop in Glastonbury where we bought a lovely pair of plain cream summer sandals/shoes for the princely sum of £10.

The fact that noone from Clarks bothered to post here after saying that they would just underlines how pointless they are. Hopefully someone new will enter the market soon and topple Clarks monopoly.

Sorry, but I really don't like Clarks

I too hate Clarks, The last fitting for my son they told me he was a 6 F or G?????? - Well which?

They then sold me a pair of 1 x 6F trainer and 1 x 6 1/2F trainer. I took them back on discovery an asked, Surely it would have been huge on his 'small' (he's a 5 1/2 on that foot). Only to be told that they only 'fit' to the big foot. Which is fine if they don't put a wrong size on the other foot.

I'm off to Brantano next time, even though it's a half hour drive.

Hear hear Enid .

i also hate clarks!!they measured ds feet and then sold me a pair of kickers boots that were over £40 and they were too small within a month,they do it on purpose so you`re buying shoes every other month,GRRRRRRR!!

I am not a huge fan of Clarks but their Doodles shoes are great and washable and their babies shoes for crawling to walking are excellent imho. They generally have terrible designs I agree and my dd's feet have been measured soooo wrong it's untrue. One week she was a 6.5 and then in another shop a 7.5. She has a high arch and a wide foot and is under 3 yo so we don't get much choice from an already limited choice. We have a lovely shop near us in Ilford, Essex which does fantastic kids shoes - not cheap but then Clarks aren't either and they are fashionable and practical so everyone's happy.

hmm, have to say we have had good service from both our local clarks shops. as he's only 2 i'm less concerned about style than quality and good fit - both of which we have had from clarks. based on the murmurings on this thread, i went to a different shop for his last pair, start-rites, which have lasted the grand total of 7 weeks! and they had some very trendy shoes which i really wanted for him - until i saw how difficult it was for hime to walk in them. we're going back to clarks tomorrow for sandals.

Don't knock Clarkes ... you'd miss them if you lived in NZ ... believe you me! No such thing as 'measuring' children's feet for shoes here ...
And if you have a child with wide feet like my DS ... well ... you're stuffed!
Shoe buying is a total nightmare here ...

yes we are a wide-footed lot in our house too!

Clarks do fine with my DD. Last time I bought Start-Rite as we couldn't find any Clarks she liked and we had a nightmare.

Ghosty, KWYM about NZ kids' shoes. DD was due her first ever pair when we were out there and I left her in Bobux instead, waiting until we got home to buy her real shoes. I was delighted when we got to Oz to discover that Clarks were available there.

FWIW, DD is an F fitting which I think is standard on most off-the-shelf anyway? I still prefer to have them fitted though.

Same wrt Indonesia, Ghosty and SueW!! If you do manage to find leather shoes, they are as wide as a barge. School uniform demands black leather shoes - what a hassle when dd has narrow feet. I must admit, though, Indonesia leads the stakes in styles. They have loads of pretty shoes, and tons for women too, so long as you don't mind them being plastic.

I also hate Clarke and have managed to avoid them too.. I go to Russell and Bromley or Jones... but the best bet is actually France which has MUCH more choice and can be (not always) cheaper...

twink, no Clarkes never responded, even though I spoke on the phone to their customer service department at least a couple of times. I was told that they had read the thread here and would be in touch, but no comment on mumsnet has been forthcoming has it?
Pity.

I still bypass Clarkes except to get my son's feet fitted. I have noticed their trianers this year are not all white, though, so IMO the styling has improved a little. Still none in my son's sizes.

A Brantano has opened near us and that's where I've bought their latest shoes - no queues, and the assistant was attentive and offered a good fitting service. Two pairs of nice-looking, well-fitting trainers (Gola and Hush Puppy) cost £19.00.

I work near to a huge Clarkes factory shop. I must look in it 3 or 4 times a month. I have yet to see any shoes, slippers or trainers there in either of my sons sizes

I did go the Clarkes route when my youngest son was little. The choice of toddler shoes is not bad at all IMO, and I usually got offered my choice of style in the size that fitted him. I suspect Clarkes do a bigger width range in more of their styles for tinies. Most of their older children's shoes come in a narrower width range. Clarkes told me that in fact only ONE style per season comes in the widest fittings and it sells out quickly.

So happy-with-Clarkes toddler people, be warned!

Tigermoth. Oh for a Brantano near here too !

I took dd's all-terrain style Doodles sandals back to the Clarks shop I bought them from 3 weeks ago as they had split, badly around the heel straps. Unfortunately & unusually I'd paid cash and hadn't kept the receipt and quite obviously the staff didn't believe they were 3 weeks old, because.... they were dirty !! I have a 3 year old who spends most of her waking hours playing outside, how pray do shoes not look grubby after 3 hours let alone 3 weeks ?

They agreed I could have a replacement identical pair but needless to say hadn't got any as it is now mid-July and they've got all their 'Back to School' ranges in.

Eventually, by being more forceful than I would like, I got a cash refund instead of a credit note but was absolutely steaming. We all know childrens feet grow rapidly and in sudden bursts, why can't shoesellers reflect this ?? The StartRite shop were no better either.