Do children's shoe designers live in cloud cuckoo land?

[Tigermoth]

Imagine for a minute that you are a children's shoe designer. Dark leather shoes and boots for the winter, you've got all that pretty much all sewn up. For the warmer months, however, your mind and reality apparently part company.

Your market: Primary school children.

Your brief: To design trainers that don't cost an arm and a leg, last long enough for the child to grow out of them, can cope with the rigours of ordinary playground activity and are a comfortable on warm days, with adequate protection from summer rain, and a good fit.
They don't have to have the latest logo either.

Surely not that impossible, given all the materials and technical wizardry that goes into designing the vast range trainers for adults?

So what do you come up with? My perusal around 10 (count them) shoe shops ranging from good old Clarkes to the dreaded JR Sports threw up the following offerings from you shoe desgners:

You pick white as your base colour. Especially white soles. Ignoring the fact that puddles and mud feature heavily in any English summer. You make the majority of the trainers with an under-reinforced toe area. After all, it's only a minority of children who ever kick a ball, ride a bike, or accidently scuff their trainers, isn't it? You pick suede, suede-a-like and lycra-like fabrics rather than tough, easy-to-clean leather. After all, most parents love the excuse to take their child shopping for new trainers every eight weeks, don't they?

Don't these shoe designers and manufactureres have children? Is it too much to expect a pair of trainers to come in at well under £30.00, last at least 4 months and still look reasonable? All my son really wants is a pair of trainers to run around in. He's not trying to make a fashion statement. I have hunted down the odd pair that fit the above criteria, but they are few and far between. Asking shoe shop assistants over this weekend for trainers, size 1 any colour but white met with the reoccuring answer: "sorry we only have white ones left, the darker coloured ones go really quickly" Am I missing something here?

Before anyone suggests I go to Adams, Mothercare etc for off the peg trainers, my son has a slightly wider foot than average, so these ones, I find, are usually too narrow. Anyway, I like the reassuring presence of a trained shoe shop assistant to hand, even when my son is trying on the dismal choice of trainers that we inevitably get presented with.

Am I alone in this? Is this a problem for anyone else?

Thanks Bugsy. Luckily it's rather quiet at work this week, otherwise less complimentary things might be said to me here about time and the wasting of it!

Thought I'd post a comment in slight defence of Clarkes.....Last week I bought new shoes for both my boys. They were fitted by the shop staff and we wore them home (as it was far to wet to still be wearing they're little canvas, summer shoes). It wasn't until the following day that I discovered that the shoes my youngest was wearing were really rather tight across the bridge of his foot. It made them very difficult to get on/off, although the rest of the fit was fine. We couldn't get back to Clarkes until the following Saturday and my son was wearing the shoes all week as we'd thrown the others away and he had nothing else to wear (bar slippers!). We walked into the shop geared up for a fight with my son still wearing the shoes (they were nice and scuffed by now as well) but they changed them straight away and without question for a wider pair. Definitely no complains from here....

We got our lovely new Rapunzel boots yesterday in a 7G, they fit beautifully and such a bargain at only £27!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmonty, I will defend Clarkes as well, we are now waiting for the third pair of shoes for Lucy that will stay the correct shape!. Her feet are a 12 1/2 F and she started school on 21st August and this will the third pair of shoes we will get on saturday. I am very surprised that I am having this problem, as clarkes shoes and the staff we have in our area are v.good. There is not a problem at all changing them, even although the first pair she had them for a fortnight and the pair we have just now we only got them a week past on Monday. I also the last time she needed a pair of trainers got her a pair out of a Sports shop, what a mistake, they are hurting her feet, so it's back to clarkes for the CICA Trainers, flashing soles an all. Once went into Hush Puppies in Ayr and thought the staff were to put it bluntly bloody snobby, and very condascending of the Clarkes shoes she had on.

SLIPPERS, HELP!!!! DS needs size 1, they need to be deep as he has a high instep. Can't get the ones on in Next. We need some with velcro or zips or something he can get his feet into. Anyone seen anything?

Sad but true, it's another case of throw away the shoes and keep the boxes.

M&S had some in last time I was there.
Lakeside one & Blue water have quite alot.

message withdrawn

Back on the case! I was disappointed to see there was no response here, as promised, from Clarkes while I was away. Have left a message and will chase them up later. At least we'll then get a yes or a no.

Rhiannon, racking my brains, but since we're a slipperless family, I can't help.

Think I'll have to stick with slipper socks, but I have just noticed the Robot Wars ones in the Next directory so perhaps I'll just have to buy size 2! R.

Is your family waiting for the next series with great excitement Rhiannon, or is it just this house?! (Junior members only of course)

We're fanatical maniacs here! I'm hoping to be featured screaming on the Robot Wars Live video!
There's a series started on Choice called Robot Wars Extremes about 7.30pm, don't know what night sorry.

He wants a remote control Sir K for Xmas, but at 79.99 I don't think he should get too excited!

He gets most fun out of modelling plasticine with old screws and washers and making them fight! R.

We've just got rid of Choice, typical isnt it. We made two great robots, shoe boxes on top of his remote control cars, then stuck bits from ELC builder kit on, screwdriver, spanner etc, they looked brill. That is about as far as my husbands engineering goes.

We're going to get him the Gauntlet set for his birthday, but you're right the biggies are a bit of a stretch. Found some pyjamas from Next (or woolies) for Father christmas to give him. His other favourite is the book that details all robots for the series, I've got this series one on order from Amazon. The peace and quiet we get whilst he studies it is WONDERFUL.

Soory Tigermoth to pinch your shoe board. Was surprised to hear that Clarks hadnt responded, thought they might, obviously read all the remarks and were terrified of such a hardhitting consumer group!

That's OK Ems. We're Robot Wars fans too!

Clarkes have got back to me. The representative knew all about the postings, and was under the impression that Clarkes had already contacted mumsnet. They are going to remind their customer services department about responding in some way here.

BTW I bought a truly lovely pair of shoes for my average-foot-sized toddler on holiday in Corsica. Bright red leather trainers by some manufacturer called Stones and Bones. Rather worried about how I can prevent them from getting scuffed, though -must get some scotchguard - they are just too perfect to be worn.

If Clarks do read this again, I'd like to congratulate them on their excellent advertising campaign. The ones on the TV are great "new shoes". The magazine ones were good too.

I bought 2nd Ds first shoes in Clarkes yesterday his 13mths and has been walking very well for 6wks which I told the assistant, who then tried to sell me pre-walking shoes, I said that he need first time shoes and she said not until his walking! Grrr, repeated that he has been for the last 6wks put him on the floor to prove it and he practically sprinted of to their staff room! Happy ending we have a love navy pair of 5H shoes.

Oh, I'm so glad to read all this! I've been amazed by the bizarre ways of shoe manufacturers. My gripe is that unless you spend huge sums of money in trendy shops, the colours are so dull for boys! My son (4 yo) does not want to wear navy or black all the time. What's wrong with a bit of orange, green, red - anything cheery? The baby sizes can be colourful but once you're over two, kiddo, it's into grown up shoes in shops round here. And yes, I too had enormous trouble buying winter shoes for him in March one year. I was told they stop manufacturing winter shoes in November! In my Clarks (which is v. friendly and as helpful as it can be in the circs) there's no point looking at the range on the shelves - they basically just measure your child and see what's left in that size ...

Hi Kjikate, Ohh yes, what do we want? colour! when do we want it? now!

When adult shoes and trainers come in such a wide range of colours and styles, why can't children's footwear keep up better?

Sorry to get back to Clarkes again, I know they are not the only children's shoe manufacturer around, but why can't they make their desert boots and some of their lovely, new adult casual shoes in children's sizes?

Oh yes please, colour for boys. When I took my 4 yr-old to buy shoes last time on the way I asked him what he was looking for. He wanted purple ones with flowers and buckles, not boring black ones.

Kjlkate, I agree with you, I never say which shoe we would like, as 9 times out of 10, "madam we dont have it". So I just ask them to measure and then wait and see what comes out of the store room.

Ems et al - I agree, you get them measured and see what they have. Have experienced much disappointment from dd when shoes she has chosen has not been available in her fitting. But I have now found that it helps to be very specific about what you want/what is acceptable, after the measuring has been done, that way you don't get shown styles unsuitable for the purpose for which you are buying eg for school. Though the assistants do not always listen (as Wornout has recently experienced!) and will, if push comes to shove, bring you a selection of things that will fit that do not meet your specification.
I wonder if the reason 4 yo shoes are dark is because mums are looking for shoes for reception/school/general wear that will match whatever clothes are put on, and if funds permit to have two pairs of shoes at this age group, for "fun" the boys might go for trainers, more suitable for active use, whereas girls might want something more "pretty"? Hence there is a nicer range of shoes for girls? Just a thought.

Madmaz, I'm sure you're right. It is the school and trainers thing. My 4 year old has just started school and sure enough, there I was in the shop, saying, 'Anything in navy please ...' But then - oh, yes, kmg, he too wanted purple with flowers on. I'm raising another issue here - should I do this in a separate strand? I'm new to messageboards, sorry if this is the wrong place - but my son too loves bright colours and has taken to saying sadly, when looking at his baby sister's clothes/shoes - 'why don't they make purple/pink/red for boys?' Anyone got any suggestions for consolation or colours? We go for orange quite a lot but he really likes purple! Am I being naive to wish he could wear more colours?

For me Kjlkate, the only colour I regard as completely offlimits for clothes is pink (and lilac). Having said that, actually finding the clothes is difficult. There's lots of colourful clothes now for babies and toddlers, but not for young boys. My son is only just 4, but he is very tall and slim. It's quite hard to find clothes that fit, and his current size (6+) tends to be fairly dull.

Kjlkate, my son LOVED purple when he was younger, I trawled around looking for shirts etc, which he never wanted to take off. Adams shop used to be good for a variety of colours.

Isn't there a leather paint you could use to jazz up shoes? Purple or flowery or whatever?

My complaint is about how clumpy all the boy's shoes are - especially the summer ones. Now my youngest son is in juniors, there are no more summer sandals for him, just heavy clumpy shoes all summer

Kjlkate, if you don't mind ordering from the US, there's a good mail order company based there called Hanna Andersson. Its website is: www.hannaandersson.com and they will deliver to the UK. You'll have to pay duty -- although children's clothes are, in theory, exempt. They have great, colourful clothes for boys (and girls) that are really well made.