Do children's shoe designers live in cloud cuckoo land?

[Tigermoth]

Imagine for a minute that you are a children's shoe designer. Dark leather shoes and boots for the winter, you've got all that pretty much all sewn up. For the warmer months, however, your mind and reality apparently part company.

Your market: Primary school children.

Your brief: To design trainers that don't cost an arm and a leg, last long enough for the child to grow out of them, can cope with the rigours of ordinary playground activity and are a comfortable on warm days, with adequate protection from summer rain, and a good fit.
They don't have to have the latest logo either.

Surely not that impossible, given all the materials and technical wizardry that goes into designing the vast range trainers for adults?

So what do you come up with? My perusal around 10 (count them) shoe shops ranging from good old Clarkes to the dreaded JR Sports threw up the following offerings from you shoe desgners:

You pick white as your base colour. Especially white soles. Ignoring the fact that puddles and mud feature heavily in any English summer. You make the majority of the trainers with an under-reinforced toe area. After all, it's only a minority of children who ever kick a ball, ride a bike, or accidently scuff their trainers, isn't it? You pick suede, suede-a-like and lycra-like fabrics rather than tough, easy-to-clean leather. After all, most parents love the excuse to take their child shopping for new trainers every eight weeks, don't they?

Don't these shoe designers and manufactureres have children? Is it too much to expect a pair of trainers to come in at well under £30.00, last at least 4 months and still look reasonable? All my son really wants is a pair of trainers to run around in. He's not trying to make a fashion statement. I have hunted down the odd pair that fit the above criteria, but they are few and far between. Asking shoe shop assistants over this weekend for trainers, size 1 any colour but white met with the reoccuring answer: "sorry we only have white ones left, the darker coloured ones go really quickly" Am I missing something here?

Before anyone suggests I go to Adams, Mothercare etc for off the peg trainers, my son has a slightly wider foot than average, so these ones, I find, are usually too narrow. Anyway, I like the reassuring presence of a trained shoe shop assistant to hand, even when my son is trying on the dismal choice of trainers that we inevitably get presented with.

Am I alone in this? Is this a problem for anyone else?

I think Clarks fitting policy is deeply suspect anyway. Whenever my daughter has been measured, she always comes away with a pair of shoes in a completely different size to the measurements that they've just taken. It seems to me that the assistants just glance at the shoe to see if it slips up and down a bit. I mean, I could do that for nothing!

I can also confirm that Holland is a good place to go to get shoes for people with longer feet. My brother and sister both have whooping feet and have had problems getting shoes all their lives. They both now do regular trips to Holland for nice, affordable shoes and clothes for tall people too.
I realise that it would probably be mad to go to Holland just to get your kids shoes. I wonder if any Dutch companies do mail order?
How about calling the British Footwear Association on 0207-580-8687. They have lists of footwear retailers who specialise in the less usual shoe sizes.

The most ridiculous experience I ever had with Clarkes was when trying to buy a pair of wellies in the late spring/early summer. My local Clarkes shop don't stock children's wellies in the summer, because of course it never rains in England in the summer, does it? And even if we did have a freak summer thunderstorm, no self-respecting toddler would ever want to actually go out and splash in the puddles, would they? I don't think these people really have a clue about little kids. At least our John Lewis stock wellies all year round.

I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who has such a hard time getting wide fitting shoes!!! My son, now 5½ years, has always had wide feet - this time 13H - (inherited from me) and every time we go to get new shoes - it's a case of 1 or if I'm really lucky 2 styles to choose from. And as for plimsolls - don't start me down that route. This time we were really lucky - went into Clarks (no queue!!!!!!) and they had his size in stock (albeit only two styles), but I was able to get shoes, trainers & plimsolls - all in ½ an hour and it came in at just under £65.00. I was amazed.

Hi there, I couldn't agree more with the anger we all share over this issue. My children both have narrow feet, which is every bit as hard as wide feet. Most ranges do Average and Wide fittings - when I ask why there aren't Narrow fittings, they say there isn't a demand. Complete nonsense. And when my son was only 4 and starting school (so needed shoes which would handle the rough and tumble of the playground) all the shoes had big clumpy soles and looked like logs on the end of his legs. By the way, I saw a survey done by Which magazine once which found that mothers fitting their children's shoes were as likely to get it right as so-called trained fitters. So we should have confidence in ourselves! I really like Winnie's idea of the catalogue shop, may give that a try.

Justine and Carrie, would it be OK if I contact Clarks customer services and ask if one of their representatives could log onto mumsnet and comment on this conversation? It's worth a go isn't it?

What do you think? Is this allowed? I won't proceed unless you give me the go ahead.

justine and carrie, i think sainsburys would be very interested in the Blue Parrot cafe thread...there is a lot of very constructive criticism in it.

I have just had the most depressing experience trying to get new shoes for my 41/2 year old twin daughters. One is 11 1/2 F, the other 12G. I tried three different Clarkes shops, each time they were measured they came up with a different size ( one assistant said dd's width was 'more than an H', but G's seem to be the correct width). Each managed to produce one, sometimes two pairs to try.Nearly all were hideous, great clumpy square-toed black shoes, far more suitable for a 14 year old than a 4 year old. All I wanted were some simple shoes they could do up themselves (no laces). Finally found them each a pair of navy buckled Startrite shoes, which look like childrens rather than adolescents shoes. But still no choice..they each had to have the only pair which fitted.At £37 a pair it would be nice to feel I had a small voice as a consumer (and its the third pair each this year, as well as trainers, jellies, plimsolls, wellies and slippers (two each of the latter three).We still need to buy more slippers. A significant total expenditure on footwear.

had a terible time having my 2 year old twins fitted - I and a half hour wait at John Lewis came away with horrible clumpy shoes just because I specified velcro fastening ..
should really go to Gordon Scotts as they stock elefanten (?) spanish make which fits narrow feet beautifuly

I also agree wholeheartedly with everything everyone has written here. My bug-bear is Clarkes. What an absolute nighmare. My 4 1/2 year old son is a size 9 (not exceedingly large) and I wanted a pair of shoes for school but, because of his size, he is now in the next range up and all the ones in Clarke had these huge clunky soles (and they were boys shoes!). We eventually found a pair that I didn't dislike too much (being only 4 1/2 he has no opinion yet on what he likes or dislikes) but the soles were so large and heavy, he could hardly walk in them and fell over in the shop. The shop assistant said he would get used to them! I gave up Clarkes as a bad bet (have had similar problems in the past with getting shoes that actually fit) and went to Startrite. The shop assistant was most helpful and the shoes they had in stock were what I would call "traditional" (not old fashioned, just nice) boys shoes with a velcro strap that he can do up himself - no large soles, no patterns, etc. The only thing was they cost £35 which is more than I pay for my own shoes. Also, back to Clarkes, earlier in the year I bought my son some doodles for the summer. They measured his feet and sold me the shoes and he has not been able to wear them once this year as they are still too large. I know they allow for growing room but he has had them since April and they still don't fit. Sitting at the bottom of his wardrobe ready for next year, when I expect they will be too small for him.

Batters, I'd really like to do this, but I do not know if it infringes mumsnet copywrite or general protocol. I don't know much about this area. This was why I posted a question asking Justine and Carrie if it was OK to involve Clarkes.

I also think it could be really interesting to have a live chat session here with one of their representatives. It looks like we've got lots of questions to ask them.

We are lucky in Reading, we have a Startrite shoe shop which I have found to be very good, the staff all seem to be well trained and they seem to havethe right idea when I have been in there. My son is 2yrs 9months and takes 9 G shoes! It is difficult finding shoes which are suitable for his age and in the right size, and I know of other people who have the same problem and this applies to clothes as well.

Maybe shoes and clothes manufactorers ought to re-think childrens sizes along with adults. Even younger children seem to be much bigger now, height and feet especially. My son is oftern mistaken for a 4 year old, and buying clothes and shoes has become more difficult recently. Is this a common problem, or am I a lone voice?

I went into Clarkes last Saturday (yes, I know, what a stupid time to buy school shoes, the last possible Sat b4 the start of term!). The ticket queuing system was up to 88, we got 106! The woman in charge had a clipboard, and wrote down a description of everyone next to their ticket number - I don't know if she thought we were all going to try an sell our tickets to people who didn't want to wait - "I'll take £20 for a number 92"! Having said that, when we did get served, the v. young girl did actually seem to know what she was doing, and we ended up with some alright shoes. I only went to Clarkes as a last resort though - I normally go to an independent retailer in Newport, they stock different makes of shoes (v. handy if you've got girls with wide feet), and they're willing to give you the time and attention to make sure you're buying the right shoes. The main drawback is that the shoes they sell are usually from around £10 more than Clarkes.
I discovered this shop when I bought my youngest her first shoes. I headed straight to Clarkes, and was told that because they were concentrating on back to school range, they wouldn't be getting any stock in of shoes that would fit her short, wide feet for a while. The message that gave me was "we won't make money out of you now, so we're not bothered about keeping you happy until you actually need school shoes".

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Just to let you know, I've got the mumsnet go-ahead to contact Clarkes. Watch this space!

Thank you Tigermoth, now just in case the man from Clarkes does read this it's going in in CAPITALS!

DEAR MR CLARK, WHY IS IT THAT WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT WIDTH FEET WHEN WE'RE CHILDREN BUT WHEN WE GROW UP, WE ARE ALL FORCED TO BUY THE SAME WIDTH SHOES?????? I DO NOT WISH TO WEAR THE STYLES OF MY DEAD GRANDMOTHER WHICH ARE AVAILABLE IN ONE RANGE I KNOW. I AM JUST A NORMAL MUM OF 2 WITH WIDE FEET. PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I WILL HAPPILY PAY YOU £40 OR MORE IF THEY FIT PROPERLY.

I went to my local small Clarks yesterday and had to order lovely pink and purple suede boots for my DD as they do not stock them (limited range as small shop). The assistant said she would only order them if I definitely wanted to buy them!! She luckily trusted me to return and has ordered them, how kind of her!!

They are doing lovely winter boots, I liked the purple patent but no they only go up to an F fitting, you'll have to have the black if you're a G. Whoever thought of that stupid idea.

Bron - I agree with you there. Both my children have grown out of sandals mid July for the last 2 years, and trying to get some more for them is ridiculous. When will they realise that you can't buy kids shoes 'in advance' as their feet grow!

Just to let you know, I phoned Clarkes customer services department early this morning. Having outlined our request, I was put through to their public relations department. The person who took my call promised to get a representative to look at this board - and, hopefully, comment on it.

It do hope this happens before I go on holiday.

A person from Clarkes PR department phoned me at work today. She and several other Clarkes people have read the messages here, and she wanted to address some of the issues on this board.

Rather than talking directly to me, and then me posting a message, I have asked her to post a message on here herself, and she says she will do this shortly.

That's really good going, Tigermoth. So much positive action - Clarkes and the airplane luggage stuff. No one could acuse you of wasting your days.

I have just discovered this discussion. Hooray! At last Clarks may listen to those in the know. I have had the same problem this summer with my little ones sandles, unless you by them in May they are sold out, so that by the time the "summer" comes his feet have already grown.Baa humbug. Also why do they put such chunky soles on such small shoes, my little one tries them on and looks like his moon walking.