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Problems with Nursery

69 replies

crystal1 · 21/02/2003 15:43

Hi, I hope someone can give me some advice on a major problem I am having.
In dec last year I was called into my 2 Yr olds nursery for a discussion.
I was told over the phone that it was nothing too much to worry about, I went in the next day and two members of staff took me to the upstairs office and informed me that a member of staff had reported over-hearing another member of staff saying she wanted to flush my sons head down the toilet.
After many shed tears i left having to go to work...I was far too upset to be at work and my boos was very understanding and said I should do whatever i needed to do.
So i went back to the Nursery to collect my son.
on the way out I was given a number to call for Social Services.
When i arrived home I called social services, I was advised of everything that was going to happen re a full investigation etc..
I asked if the threat had been made directly to my child or to another person about him she said what have they told you? So i relayed the story and she told me it was made to him.
Five minutes later she called me and asked me for my address she needed to come to see me.
She came round to my parents house and then began to tell me that she had been informed the threat had actually taken place, the girl was seen by another member of staff holding my son by the ankles head first into a flushing tiolet.
i was told that the police were giong to see this girl with the social worker later that day or early the next morning, this never happend.
I was also told by the area manger for the nursery in question that one person had seen the incident and three others heard the comotion,
she also had the cheek to ask if I would be taking my son the christmas party! She also told me they would be taking written statements from these witnesses and they would be given to the police.
She wanted to keep the lines of communication open between us and was going to keep me informed on the situation.
I didnt hear from her again.
I reported all of this to the police and a log wasnt created until I reported it!
I was informed by a member of the child protection team that he wanted to speak to this member if staff and was going to try for a criminal prosecution.
It wasnt until after New Year that he called me to let me know what was happening, he told me that she had recieved a warning but she had denied everything.
He said he was satisfied that she didntdo it and didnt have any witness statements to suggest otherwise.
I had been informed by an old school friend that her friend was the person who saw it happen and that she had been told by the nursery not to talk to anyone about it.
I now am expected to believe that the social worker was not told that there was a witness
who had seen it but had come to that conclusion herself!
I have spoken to a girl that worked at the nursery who heard this girl say to her mum(who works in the kitchen at nursery) that she did it, yet the police dont seem to be interested in this information..

I would appreciate any advice you have on this as I am at my wits end.

OP posts:
Clarinet60 · 21/02/2003 15:58

I'm speechless. Obviously this needs to be pursued, but I can't think how at the moment. Perhaps someone else has more coherent advice.
I'm really sorry this has happened to you both, crystal1.

Tillysmummy · 21/02/2003 16:03

Crystal1 I can't believe it. I don't know what to say to you. I am confused. It all sounds very fishy to me. I would go back and speak to the staff that told you about it in the first place ?

I trust your son isn't still at that nursery ?

Much sympathy, you must be very upset and frustrated.

eefs · 21/02/2003 16:07

I'm disgusted, this matter should definitely be pursued.
How is your son, was he distresed when you picked him up? Did he have any memory of it? Is the girl still working at the nursery? I'm sorry you've had this happen to your DS.

crystal1 · 21/02/2003 16:10

very upset would be one way to put it...
i have spoke to the area manager again and she 'dosent remember that conversation' which baffles me as that conversation lasted well over an hour...
he is not attending that nursery anymore and since i moved him his general behaviour as improved tremendously...i am shocked everytime i drop him off he dosent kick and scream he just goes running into the class... which also leads me to believe that there was more to the story than i am being told..

OP posts:
ks · 21/02/2003 16:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

sykes · 21/02/2003 16:22

A friend of mine was v unhappy with her nursery on one occasion - nothing comparable to what you and your ds have experienced. But it was a chain of nuseries - is yours - she took the complaint to the next level and threatened letters to local press etc, etc? But of course you don't want to be litigious.
Can you complain to anybody more senior than the area manager? There must be someone your area manager reports to. Have you canvassed opinion among other mothers still there? What's the individual's reputation? I'd be tempted to put it down in writing - as unemotionally as possible which will, of course, be very difficult, and point out the massive amount of discrepancies. Why on earth did they suggest you contact social services if no problem? Send the letter to the area manager's senior, cc'd to the area manager. The nursery alerted you in the first place. How dare they brush you off. Also social services have some explaining to do. It will be impossible not to be emotional but somebody/ies needs a massive sorting out.
Glad your ds is much happier. The place sounds as if it should be shut down.

ks · 21/02/2003 16:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Tillysmummy · 21/02/2003 16:25

How convenient ! Definitely sounds suspicious. I agree with complaining to someone more senior. They need to be forced into disciplining the girl involved - who knows what else goes on in a place like that. Im so sorry for you both xx

crystal1 · 21/02/2003 16:29

yes she has been dismissed...
yet they are saying it didnt happen!!

He wont go near a toilet ..and when we drive past the nursery he says 'not go there anymore mummy'
the day it happened my dad picked him up and he had different clothes on...and his hair was wet!!
he kept saying to me over the weekend (the incident took place on a friday) sarah naughty mummy ..well i had no idea that he meant from nursey i thoght he meant my friend!!

OP posts:
Philippat · 21/02/2003 16:39

I am truly shocked at this story. Personally, if you feel you are really at the end of getting anywhere, I'd go to the local press. sometimes you've just got to do all you can to warn other parents. I'm glad your ds seems to have got over it, the poor thing.

eefs · 21/02/2003 16:43

I'm still thinking about this. It sounds like the Nursery is trying to hush this up and pretend it never happened, so first you need to decide if it's worth pursuing, i.e. now your son's moved and is happier, this doesn't affect you life now, and the nursery is not going to make things easy for you.
If you are, you need to sit down and write out a chronological journel of all that's happened, including dates, times, names etc. Get a copy of the police log and the social worker and the member of the Child protection team reports if possible. Your boss should remember you receiving the phone call from the Nursery, and there will be phone records (not sure hou you'd get these though).
Second, you need to see if you can get any of the witnesses to talk to you and support what was originally said. This is all about building your case, I wonder would a discussion with other mother do any good, but that may not be convienent now your son no longer attends. I'm not sure if this is any use, but I think that showing you've done your homework can only help. I'll try and think what else you can do. Maybe is someone else here has ever reported a nursery they might have some more useful information.

GillW · 21/02/2003 17:12

Isn't there an issue here that it's not just the nursery (and by the sounds of it the other staff were equally horrified by what happened at the time - so they can't be ALL bad, and they did at the time seem to be doing the right thing, even if their position changed later - the cynic in me wonders if this change of attitude came about once levels further from the action than the are manager become involved) but that if this person could get a job at this nursey, presumably they could get another job working with children if no official action is taken?

Obviously you can't change what's already happened, but by making sure that this doesn't get dropped now you could make sure that the same (or worse) doesn't happen to someone else's child.

happydays · 21/02/2003 17:17

Just read this and completely horrified, IMO I wpuld persue this matter, isn't what she done assult or something. I agree that if no action is taken then she could get a job working with kids and no the same or worse. Good luck and keep posting.

Jaybee · 21/02/2003 17:19

I second taking this higher - is it a chain of nurseries or a single one? I think I would take this to the owners, I would explain what you have already done and that you are not happy with what has been achieved. The fact they immediately took you upstairs means that they did not want any other parents to overhear what they were about to tell you. Maybe you should say to the owner that you intend to take this even further and even threaten to raise this with parents, local press etc., may even be worth threatening to sue them for child cruelty. A bad name is not what they want as it will probably mean that parents withdraw from nursery or if prospective parents are put off it all means loss of earnings and, to be honest, that is all alot of nursery owners is bothered about.

sykes · 21/02/2003 17:22

I strongly recommend this - see earlier posting (press, nursery owners, etc). A friend of mine threatened this - much less serious situation - and the difference in attitude was fairly overwhelming. Am sure you want to put it behind you but the person who abused - which is what she did - your son should never be allowed to work with children again.
Hope you can enjoy your w/end.

katierocket · 21/02/2003 18:08

I can't believe this. That is totally outrageous. I'm glad to hear that your DS is happier at new nursery. I can understand how difficult it all is but I agree with everyone else - if you can bear it, you must try and make sure the nursery are made to answer for this. Having said that I'm not sure how. I don't understand - is the social worker now saying that although she was told about the incident happening there is nothing they can do?
Are there any lawyer mumsnetters out there who could offer some suggestions on what crystal1 can do?

Caroline5 · 21/02/2003 18:46

I'm appalled, crystal1. Kyliebump, I know this isn't strictly your area, but do you have any pointers as to how to make this nursery (or whoever else) take appropriate action against this girl? It seems like those involved have closed ranks - they are no doubt terrified that you will take things further, but I feel that if you can stand it, this must be done, as others have said, to prevent any other children from suffering at the hands of this girl and to get justice for your son. Easier said than done, but agree that you may have to threaten local press etc to get anywhere.
I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

crystal1 · 21/02/2003 20:32

this nursery is part of the largest chain of nurserys in the country...and yes intend to go as far as i ca
n but it semms as though i get so far nad then hit a brick wall...
i have have been advised of other incidents by ex members of staff involving other children and that some of the staff were appalled by the way this girl treated my son and another Two year old boy in the same class as mine..unfortunately i have no way of contacting any of the parents as my son is no longer there..
i have however learnd that following the incident other children were removed from this nursery.
the police have told me that she wont be working with children again, but what i dont understand is 1. if shes denied it, and didnt do it why hasnt she sued for wrongful dismissal.
2.if she denied it and they have no evidence to prove she did it ...why has she had a warning ?

OP posts:
Jimjams · 21/02/2003 21:23

I took my son out of a branch of one of the largest chains in the country following appalling treatment (this is worse though). See my thread on OFSTED and nurseries under education. In that thread someone has given the number of an ofsted telephone line you can ring if you have complaints about a nursery. I wish I had done it at the time we had our problems- I definitely think you should ring them- they will be able to help (and will check the nursery). You could also ring the Early Years Department of your LEA (ring the council- they'll have the number).

Alibubbles · 22/02/2003 09:14

ould this be the nursery chain that lost a baby recently due to bad practice?

Or is it the chain whi have reduced their fees by 20% to gain new clients as they are lsoing them so quickly, mind you the one above has also reduced its fees.

Ghosty · 22/02/2003 09:24

crystal1 .. I am so sorry this has happened to you and your little boy. I read your post with my mouth hanging open ... I just can't imagine how you must have felt. I would be SO angry if I found that someone did that to my son.
I don't have any advice for you from personal experience but I agree with everyone who says you should persue it ...
Thinking of you!

Alibubbles · 22/02/2003 09:45

Sorry, I should preview before I post, wish there was a spellcheck on here!

WideWebWitch · 22/02/2003 10:00

Crytal1, this is awful. Just wanted to add my horrified reaction to the others here. Good luck with getting some action, I agree with whoever said write everything down in chronological order.

OuiOui · 23/02/2003 19:27

Crystal1
I feel so sickened by what has happened to you and your poor little boy. You should pursue this and make sure that the nursery is shown up for what it really is. I am so disgusted that I am totally speechless - In fact I think I would get really violent if anyone even dreamed of doing thet my dd. hang in there and maybe we could get something togetehr from all Mumsnetters - a form of petition or something?

prufrock · 23/02/2003 20:35

Crystal1 this is an awful thing to have happened to your son, and you do need to do something, both for yourself, and so that this never happens again. Definately threaten them with the press. You say you aren't in touch with any of the other parents - would it be possible to just hang around outside in the morning, collar one of teh other Mums who you remember and get them to help you - I'm sure any parent would want to having heard your story

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