The society we live in today - what is wrong with some people and how can it be fixed?

[DrNortherner]

Watching the news, all you see is stories of yobs being violent, socially disruptive, on the dole and genrally not giving a toss about themselves or anyone else. They have no desire to get off their arses and get a job and a better life and future.

Do we make it too easy for these kind of people? We give them money to spend, we let them off if they commit a crime and hell, we even house them if they become parents and pay some of their monthly bills.

I grew up on a council estate in Teesside, lived there till I was 17. My parents still live in the same house. My Gran and 2 aunties live on council estates too, and I visit regularly so I know what I am talking about. Don't shout me down in flames, I am not critiscising everyone, I am well aware there are many good people with morals who live on council estates, and I am the first to defend when a bit of council estate bashing takes place.

But I have seen a huge change.When I was a kid, most of the residents were elderly or young families, but mainly people had jobs - they just didn't earn alot. People took care of their properties and the gardens were immaculate.

Now it is a different story. It is full of youngsters with kids, with no jobs, with no hope and with no desire to improve their lot. I so worry about my mum and dad. They live next door to a young girl with 3 kids. The Dad is 19 and on drugs. They have lots of visitors throughout the night, and last year 4 men turned up and smashed all their windows and kicked their door in.

This is just one example. The local shops are nearly all closed down, lots of houses boarded up, kids parks in disrepair (because of local vandals) and kids as young as 2 wander the streets for most of the day 'playing' outside.

The local secondary school is crap and in special measures.

Can you imagine living there as a teen?

What can we possibly do to get out of this rut?

I didn't mean that lack of wider life experience is the cause either. It is another contributing factor sadly.

Damn
this

Just to mention there is another side as well- lack of tolerance for start.

Link is well worth a look for anyone interested in this stuff.

(and I notice Soapy and I clashed on teh tolerance word- just to be clear, tolerance of those in our society who need support through no fault of their own; as opposed to tolerance of bad behaviour- there's a difference!)

Peachy of course people with SN should be shown great tolerance, it goes without saying and it is distressing to think that these young people are further stigmatised by having ASBOs landed on them too.

I really don't think that societies ills are caused by young people with SN. Far from it! And I would like to think that those young people who have SN are not taking the rap for society's ills!

So just to clarity, my comments in my post below extend to those children who are NT.

All we x-posted again, and you put it far more succinctly that I did

I knew that Sopay - just wanted to increase awareness of the campaign really.

pmsl now!

I think it is really sad reflection that because there is the ability for a tiny number of individuals to become phenomenally rich overnight that generally people desperately hope for that to happen to them.
Young girls now wanting to be footballers wives because they see being pretty and shopping as a career option.
Everyone just seems to be looking for a short cut the whole time.
In my grandparents day it was generally embarrasing to be on long term government support of any kind. now for certain sections of the community it is all they have ever known - parents never worked they aren't working and they are bringing up children who have never experienced a parent earning money.

I don't think the media are to blame but they certainly don't help - programs where people become famous for showing their kebab and thinking that east angular is abroad innit seem to suggest that with very little talent or effort the average Joe can become a millionaire.

It creates disatisfaction with reality.

I don't know what the answer is but certainly we should start with newspapers and television should not be allowed to pay 5&6 figure sums for expose stories.
And Hello & OK paying a million pounds to cover someones wedding is obscene.

Getting off my soap box - feet are now clean.

I think that there has to be a clear understanding of what is 'bad behaviour' too. What needs to be tolerated and what doesn't.

Children simply playing outside are not a problem. Children drinking and hanging around public places are.

soapbox - agree entirely, I don't understand the "you mustn't judge" culture at all.

Of course we must use our judgement, and have well-formed and well-thought out opinions as to what is right and wrong.

Absolutely snowleopard. I used to think Thatcher was A Good Thing (influenced by a very right-wing economics teacher!) but the results are not pretty.

As for strong religious, moral and family values, they are good as preventatives, but they won't help teenagers whose families are past caring or have lost control. If their parents can't give them the framework they need then the State needs to step in with the cash for appropriate premises, skilled youth workers and programmes of activities that aim to occupy and inspire.

Because we are into the 2nd/3rd generation of kids from parents thrown on the scrapheap by 18 years of Thatcher govt. They took whole industries away and replaced it with absolutely nothing.

no jobs

no industry

no education.

Nothing can excuse the death of Gary Newlove. But these are the very kids I'm talking about. Their paretns have no structure - they have none. They are lost.

Plus the gap continues to widen and they whole thing is just a viscious circle. Pple with jobs in okay areas think they are scum (which many are) they see nothing but pple telling them what to do and how to do it. Don't smoke in the pub, eat this, do that, don't play with guns, do play with guns, get a job, stay at home with your kids, ....blah blah. Tell less, listen more.

Nothing, nothing nothing excuse Gary Newlove. But its not enough to say they are out of control. There are reasons for it and its going to take a monumental effort to get it back on track. Shame on Blair that he didn't do more.

Agree with claricebean that there are lots of people now who simply feel that they have no stake in mainstream society at all. They live in crumbling housing, attend shitty schools and exist on breadline benefits - and in many cases this has been the case for two or more generations. I think a lot of people in this situation feel that mainstream society doesn't care about them, so why should they care about us? As cod says, the only way out of this sort of spiral is to spend money - lots of it - on schools and facilities in impoverished areas, and give the people who live there a realistic chance of making better lives for themselves.]

I also agree with blaming Thatcher - but then I usually blame Thatcher as much as possible

Because norty Callum with two unemployed parents has parents who are bored, who have next to no money, who probably fight, drink, don't parent well. I know these are huge generalisations, but if the parents are lost in this way, unmotivated, then where is hope for Callum?

I'm not sure judging is productive though. Is making someone feel ashamed and guilty a good motivator? I don't think any of us would agree that that method works with our own children.

Of course positive peer pressure is important. As is developing a sense of purpose, self esteem, a sense of having control over one's life.

Owing to appalling family circumstances, my father had to leave school at 14. Nonetheless he could do advanced calculus, read Latin and recite large chunks of French poetry which he could still remember up to his death aged 87.

My mother taught primary school children immediately after the war in the Channel Islands. She had a class of 35 6 year olds. Every single child left her class being able to read and write.

EDUCATION is the key.

My suggestion would be that the government should back off out of education and let schools and teachers do their jobs.

Countingthegreyhairs - I can only speak for myself, but if one of my DCs shoplifted, beat up old ladies, or indeed beat up or bullied anyone. Then I would want them to feel very very ashamed indeed!

Sorry for my appalling grammar in that last post

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