A cleaner, an ironing lady, an au pair...

[emkana]

... that's the help my friend has, while being a SAHM. Now when she and I and some other friends get together for a chat and have a moan, I just can't help thinking "What on earth are you complaining about?" She does have a three-year-old, a two-year-old and a small baby, but, wait for it: The oldest now goes to private kindergarten every day until 3.30 pm, the middle one goes to nursery every morning.
I keep thinking "So what do you do?"
Her dh works very long hours, so she says how tiring it is to do the bedtime routine on her own.
Am I being unfair and a cow? Or am I right?

I have a vacuum cleaner which I use rather than a carpet beater.

When my DS twins were small, I worked 3 days, had the kids for the rest of the week, did all the housework,DIY, gardening, decorating,also didn't have the use of a car, and had to walk or catch public transport everywhere.

However, life changes, they are now in school. I still do all the same chores, but get them done quicker as the boys are not around, leaving me to go shopping, go to lunch, or my health club.

To all of you who envy, these womens way of life, just hang on in there, your time will come when you have your youngest in full time school, but you will also have the memories of the time spent with your kids while they were small.

Sophable

Just to set the record straight I am not experiencing pure ugly envy of Emkanas friend. I don't even know the woman!!!

I don't care if she has a gardener, au pair, string of cleaning woman, ironing women, or anything else. I couldn't give a monkeys.
I have love in my life and thank god my health and no amount of money can make you truly happy.

Anyway you are entitled to your opinion, so am I. None of us know what the problem is with Emkanas friend do we?

whispers

maybe she doesn't have a problem. maybe she does a bit of moaning because she doesn't know how else to make conversation at the coffee morning, and everyone else is having a moan and she doesn't want to a) be left out or b) seem to be snooty. maybe she leaves each meeting thinking "god, what a lovely easy life I have compared to that lot, aren't I very lucky" and trots of homeward without a second thought.

maybe she doesn't. who knows? as I say, live and let live.

Yes, the way I feel whenever I see you pph

kkgirl, i was responding to your comment that you wouldn't be her friend becuase she complains and has no right to...

pph is right, but even if she complains i just don't see how she isn't allowed to do that and still be a nice person becuase she has staff????

Haven't had time to read the other posts (sorry all), and I expect I am out of kilter with everyone else and their opinion, but speaking as someone with a husband who works very long hours and is never home in the week prior to bed time, I do have some sympathy with your friend. I have 2 children: a 2 year old and a 5 month old, and I am temporarily a SAHM (whilst on mat leave) but my 2 year old goes to Nursery for 2 half days a week and baby goes for one of those half days too (so that I have a half day free per week), but I still would trade this arrangement (ie not send either to Nursery) with my friends who dont have any nursery provision but have husbands who are home by 6pm every night, and who don't leave the house in the morning until 08.15 / 08.30

Also I don't know how old your children are, but as your friend has a small baby don't forget how utterly time consuming small babies are (most won't be put down for more than a few minutes at a time without crying etc). I know I had forgotten how time consuming small babies were before ds arrived.

I think your friend could maybe show a little bit of tact here. Most people with young kids are exhausted for most of the time, but not all of us have the luxury of help. Therefore, if you're in a circle of friends where most of them just struggle on alone, moaning about how tired you are, with your help, is just not particularly tactful. It doesn't make her a bad person because she has help - but maybe she could be a bit more sensitive?

paolosgirl

Well put!! You've said exactly what I was trying to get at in my rambling clumsy way. I think that sensitivity would help.

Agree. It's always good to pick when and to whom you complain to. Looks like emkana's friend made the mistake of complaining to the wrong audience.

But whatever her circumstances, doing a bedtime rountine for three tinies is bound to be tiring. As others have said, did she complain about this in an attempt to fit in with everyone else?

I've just had a funny thought about this thread. Everyone who has posted will now be super conscious about anything they said when they meet up with friends. Conversations throughout the land could dry up because everyone is afraid to say anything in case they are seen as moaning in a way which doesn't fit in with everyone else!!!!!!!

I'm certainly going to be more careful what I say in the future, mind you in my close circle of friends I have 1 more than the others, and twins, so they always say how knackered I look!!!!!

I think it is hard to fit in at coffee mornings when you are "different" to everyone else. I certainly had that experience when I was a new mum.

I wasn't able to talk about DS's birth because it was a wonderful birth (2 hours, no stitches), where everyone else was talking about their forceps and how they couldn't sit down for a week.

I couldn't mention how easy I found breastfeeding, when they were all bottlefeeding.

I was on maternity leave from a good job with a good company, but I wasn't able to tell anyone how this (esp the 18-weeks full pay part), made my life a bit different to theirs (predominantly non-career women).

I wasn't allowed to tell them that my house was reasonably clean because I had them over the day after my cleaner came.

So, I said very little and didn't really enjoy coffee mornings much. Some days were very lonely for me, as I didn't have any family around, and there was no internet in those days.

I can sympathise with this lady when she moans about DH not being around to help with bedtimes. Bedtimes are hard with multiple children and no help - if it were me, it would probably be the one thing I felt I had in common with the others in the room, and was my first chance to contribute to the conversation.

With every year that passes I find myself getting more and more careful who I complain to. I am far more cautious about revealing my life's woes in an attempt to make friends in a group. Don't know if this is a good thing or not.

Ameriscot2004 - your last post just goes to show what a wide and diverse bunch we are and yet all have different pleasures and potential problems when it comes to being a parent and fitting in with other parents.
After my first child I found I avoided coffee mornings and mums get togethers for almost the exact opposite set of reasons. Apart from the fact that I am very shy, I bottle fed my baby and just the diea of going out with other mums in the area and getting out the dreaded bottle instead of proudly bf like almost everyone else in the area was a massive issue for me. I also had a hard time in labour and resorted to ventouse etc. in the end - felt a failure and dreaded anyone asking me how my birth experience was as theirs all seemed to be lavender oil and waterbirth stories. Equally, mine never slept well at night for first 6 months and hated anyone asking me as if I told the truth i would get so much sympathy and lots of well meant advice about what they do that works a dream and that theirs sleep a full 12 hours every night...
After DD2 found more confidence to socialise a bit more and have come to realise that it doesn?t really matter what others think/feel/do in their family life. We are happy and for now that is enough.

Agree emkana that it would be understandable if you were a little jealous of the home help as being a mum can be hard work juggling all those different home chores. Also think that she might have been insensitive if she moans about her non existent housework but perhaps she really thinks she is trying to be sensitive by joining in and not wiping your noses in the fact that she has that extra support in some areas. Who knows? Perhaps her children are hard work at bedtime and maybe her DH is totally unsympathetic. If she is your friend and you value her friendship you will know her well enough to know how to deal with it if she moans again - either to ignore it or jokingly challenge her on it and give her the opportunity to get her own stresses and concerns aired as that is partly what friendship is all about - give and take and mutual support. (Sorry that last bit sounds patronising but not very good at expressing what I mean and so hop eyou can see beyond the waffle and pick up on the better bits, if any).

Sounds like your friend could do with arranging things a bit better Emkana . Agree that bathtimes alone are difficult so my initial thought was why doesn't she arrange the au pair's hours to correspond with bathtime? OK Beetroot says that the au pair only held the baby at bathtime. But from my experience with a jealous 3yo and small baby that would be a massive help. I'm lucky that most of the time DH is around to help but on the occasions when he is working away I have found it very challenging.

I used to be an au pair and occasionally did bathtimes alone for a 4 yo and 2 yo - miles easier than for 3 yo and baby.

When I was on maternity leave with ds2, ds1 went to his day nursery as usual - for one thing I needed to keep the place for when I returned to work - for another it was nice to be able to focus on the new baby without an active toddler wreaking havoc.( and yes I did get some stick about it from other people - one guy I worked with was shocked at the money I was wasting on nursery fees when I was at home and could have had ds1 with me)

Also like others on here my dh works long hours/is away from home and we don't have family around us to help out at all, so it was great to be able to send ds1 off to nursery and take some of the pressure off.

Let's not forget how many people post on mumsnet who have a small baby and find it difficult to cope with the tiredness, housework, isolation and PND - do other people sit here and think - "you think that's bad - try having twins/and active toddler as well/3 under 5" or whatever.

I would like all of those. In fact, I do pay someone to tidy the (weeny London) garden twice a year, I have a once weekly cleaner, and my mum and the girl up the road help me with ds. If I had a spare room I would seriously consider an au pair (well, actually, I'd put the new baby in it, but if I had another spare room...)
I do think moaning about your life when you get together is a bit tedious, personally. Real problems are often best aired with a close friend, but if a group of mums get together to moan, well, isn't that a bit boring for you all?
Anyway, have to make lunch for ds as my mum has been playing with him for the last hour while I drank coffee and read the papers....

There's nothing wrong with having as much help as you want and can afford. I am a sahm , I have help with the house 5 mornings a week and a gardener twice a week. That then frees up time so that I can fitter away the hours on MN !