Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

A cleaner, an ironing lady, an au pair...

120 replies

emkana · 01/10/2004 23:20

... that's the help my friend has, while being a SAHM. Now when she and I and some other friends get together for a chat and have a moan, I just can't help thinking "What on earth are you complaining about?" She does have a three-year-old, a two-year-old and a small baby, but, wait for it: The oldest now goes to private kindergarten every day until 3.30 pm, the middle one goes to nursery every morning.
I keep thinking "So what do you do?"
Her dh works very long hours, so she says how tiring it is to do the bedtime routine on her own.
Am I being unfair and a cow? Or am I right?

OP posts:
Original poster
emkana · 02/10/2004 00:10

Good point, unicorn.
To be fair, we all do listen and sympathise with her.

OP posts:
littlemissbossy · 02/10/2004 00:18

I see what Unicorn means on this one.
I used to have a local friend (who has since moved away from the area) who had, as Emkana's friend has, an aupair, 2x cleaners, an ironing lady and a team of gardeners. She appeared to live the life of luxury, going to the gym, beauty salon, lunching, driving round in the conv.bmw. TBH initially, I thought she was simply lazy and didn't give two hoots for her children but as I got to know her I realised that she was very depressed and extremely lonely. All she really wanted was friendship and attention from her dh who was a workaholic.

nikkim · 02/10/2004 00:36

I would agree unicorn as I suppose what makes us tired is all relative really ( although often it is our relatives that make us tired )

I know there are people who think i shouldn't moan for being tired as I do have it easier than many mums. But then maybe I get tired easier than others, or mabe I am a pampered princess who needs to start whining.

I know when I was married it looked from the outside as if I had an easy life as I was a SAHM with a cleaner and no real money worries. But exh was a total unnsupportive git who made me a depressed emmotional wreck and I was incredibly lonely. I would never at the time have admitted this other than the odd moan about feeling tired . Outside appearances can be so deceptive.

essbee · 02/10/2004 00:45

Message withdrawn

KateandtheGirls · 02/10/2004 01:02

I'm a SAHM who has a cleaner (but only every fortnight), a lawn service and a pool service.

However I realise I'm very fortunate in that financially I can afford these things which make my life a lot easier. Than again, in many other ways I haven't been so fortunate in life.

unicorn · 02/10/2004 01:36

Kate,that is exactly what I was trying to point out-don't judge people by appearances.. (or what they appear to have) because no one really knows what is going on beyond the surface.

almost40 · 02/10/2004 03:02

what in god's name is an ironing lady?

jabberwocky · 02/10/2004 03:46

I know, it sounds ridiculous on the surface for someone like that to be complaining. I have to say that some of my friends (I am almost positive about one or two) have said the same about me. I don't have as much as emkana's friend but I do have someone to deep clean once a month, child cre provider who comes in for half a day 5 days a week and dh works from home. I have managed to keep things afloat financially working at my office 3 1/2 days a week.

And yet, i have had such horrible PND this whole first year of ds's life that it seemed hard some days to even get out of bed. I would look forward to coming home from work and then after just an hour of taking care of an extremely active little boy I would wish that I could just go back to work again. Things seem better lately, but I've learned that just when I think I'm over it something pushes me back down again. You just never know what's going on with people when no one is around.

Ameriscot2004 · 02/10/2004 06:59

I have an au pair, but I still have to do a lot of housework myself. If I wanted to be free of any housework, I'd have to have a cleaner and ironer too.

I don't see any harm in getting household help if that's the lifestyle you want. I do a lot of unpaid work in the community, and having an au pair allows me do this.

Of the various cleaners I've had in the past, I can't picture any of them running the local toddler group, being a school governor etc. etc. The community would be a lot worse off if the small army of SAHMs who keep everything ticking over were decimated because of housework.

Skate · 02/10/2004 07:32

I couldn't cope with her moaning I have to say!! What the hell does she do herself!?

Mind you, I can honestly say I wouldn't want this. I don't like the idea of having other people in my house etc. Lots of friends have cleaners but honestly I wouldn't like one - I'm quite sad and like cleaning anyway!!! The only thing we have is a gardener because our garden is quite big and mature and we don't have a lawnmower. I know, it's still lazy but it's only £20 a month.

kkgirl · 02/10/2004 08:41

I honestly can't see why people bother having kids if they just want to palm them off on the nanny/au pair all the time. Whats the point?
When my ds was 2 1/2 I had twins, my dh worked away to pay the bills. It was B* hard, and I'm proud that I coped on my own, and its still hard now, we hardly ever go out and as a result don't have much of a relationship, apart from loving each other, and still being together, which can't be bad after 16 years.
However, although I say all this, I agree with Princesspeahead, and say live and let live. TBH, if you are loaded you just set your sights higher, it must be a natural thing.

And lastly in my rant, most people these days have too much, they aren't grateful at all and don't appreciate what they have. Its such a throwaway society.

Both of my parents have had very, very hard lives, with lots of heartbreak, and they didn't have any money when we were small, they had orange crates for bedside tables and things like that.
Now they are retired, they are comfortable, but they don't spend enormous amounts. But 1 thing I have in my life that money can't buy is love, I know that my dh loves me, my dd and ds's love me, and my parents love me and that is more important than anything money can buy.

Rant over, that touched a nerve!!!!!

expatkat · 02/10/2004 08:46

I'm sorry, emkana, I want to let this go because it hardly seems worth the energy, but I can't. . .I'd be horrified if a friend was judging me as you judge your friend.

You remind me a little of a man who was complaining to me about his ex-wife the other day. He said, "Both our boys are in school full time. She has no interest in working. She is always sitting around having a coffee with other mothers from school. What the hell does she DO all day?" So I defended her, of course. I said she probably had plenty to do to run a house on her own. But I guess, to an outsider, even to her ex-husband, it looks like she does nothing.

This may be you in a few years, Emkana, when both your daughters are in school, and people say of you: what do you DO all day? I think we really need to support each other (women) more, whatever our choices, because it seems to me that the world finds enough to criticize about us as it is.

dejags · 02/10/2004 08:50

When we move to SA I'll have a cleaner/nanny (four days a week) and a gardener (1 day a week).

I have to say I would take offence if anybody insinuated that I cared less for my children because we can afford to have help in the home. In my view having time to concentrate on my kids rather than the tedium of cleaning, gardening etc etc can only be a good thing. I also think time for me is just as important and I fully intend to resume horse-riding and running when I have the time.

Every persons' problems are as important to them as the next persons' are - it's all relative...

kkgirl · 02/10/2004 08:51

It doesn't sound to me like emkana is judging her friend to me. It sounds like she is wondering what this woman is complaining about exactly.
I wonder how she would like to get up night after night in the winter with twins, and feed them all night long on her own!!!!!1

Sorry but this is really annoying me.

hercules · 02/10/2004 08:56

If i were your friend and had the money i'd have the same help like a shot. Three kids under 3 is a lot of work especially with a partner who's not around much.
GEtting help doesnt make you lazy nor does doing housework all day make you a better person.

expatkat · 02/10/2004 09:00

She says,

"I keep thinking "So what do you do?" Of course that's a judgment.

And kkgirl, the first line of your first post is exactly the sort of sentiment that inspired this thread .

I have to go look after my kids now, but I hope this thread doesn't get out of hand.

Freckle · 02/10/2004 09:08

Of course, there is always the possibility that all that help isn't her choice. If her dh earns a lot of money, he may have ideas of how he wishes to display this. Some men feel that having a wife who has no responsibilities is a sign that they have "made it". So maybe she would love to do more herself, but her dh insists that she display their wealth by employing a range of staff.

Personally, if we were in this position, I'd probably get help with the cleaning and ironing as these are chores which I find mind-numbingly dull, but that's about it. Even if my dh insisted, I'd probably veto any additional help. But maybe, if she feels that way, your friend isn't confident or bold enough to defy her dh.

kkgirl · 02/10/2004 09:09

Sorry expatkat but I can't get to the thread you are saying about, when I press the link it goes to the homepage.

Perhaps if emkana is around she could tell us what her friend does all day?

Anyway I don't want to get into any sort of argument about it, we all do what we have do. Still think that today, there are people with real problems, ill health, relationships etc, and we should just be thankful and appreciative for what we have, there are plenty of people worse off.
Take care

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:10

I'm curious to know how you can be a better person by doing your own ironing and cleaning and not having any help with 3 kids under 3.

I hate cleaning and ironing and if i was a sahm and could afford it I would have all of those. An aupair would be great to help out with 3 young kids as well.
So what if other people manage without help. Why struggle if you dont have to.

I'd still feel justified having a moan as well. I cant imagine doing a bedtime routine with a dh who works long hours on my mine with 3 small kids.

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:12

Sorry Freckle but why would you think it must be her dh insisting on the extra help.
People spend a lot of time on mumsnet saying how hard it is to be a sahm yet if someone does get help they get slated.

So then is it actually very easy to be a sahm after all?

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:13

You cant have it both ways. Saying what does she do all day if she has help and yet also saying elsewhere that sahms work just as hard as mums who go out to work!

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:14

Oh come on everyone, get a grip - a woman who stays at home all day and has a nanny, au pair and cleaner too is NOT having it as tough as someone who stays at home all day and does all these things herself while looking after her children AND getting up in the night.

I mean there is being tolerant and understanding of other people's situations but this is just ridiculous - why can't you just admit that this woman has no grounds for complaint on that front!!

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:15

Hercules - but this SAHM has a nanny, cleaner and au pair!!! With all this help, she could be out at work!! You can't deny she must have more time to herself than a SAHM who has none of this help, surely?

Freckle · 02/10/2004 09:16

I didn't say that it was her dh, just that it might be. I have a friend who is in this situation, where her dh feels that having a wife who does her own cleaning etc. doesn't reflect their status (apart from the big house and flash cars). She says that she'd rather do it herself, but doesn't want to upset her dh.

It was just another angle, not meant as a judgement.

Original poster
emkana · 02/10/2004 09:16

I don't have any problem whatsoever with her having a cleaner and someone who irons and an au-pair, I think that's great and I wouldn't mind having those things, definitely not.

What I don't get is why she chooses to put her son into full-time school at three, and her daughter into nursery every day until half past one.

I would love to have all the domestic help I could get to not be bogged down by it anymore and concentrate on other things, i.e. spend time with my children, quality time.
I'd totally understand if she had two mornings without the kids to have time to herself, but she hardly sees them!
It's like somebody said further down, I totally support the choice of SAHM, MWWOTH, working part-time - whatever. But I really don't see how she spends her days - it mystifies me, as the children are gone a lot of the time or looked after by the au-pair, the housework is largely taken care of...
I don't know. I'll shut up now.

OP posts: