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Original poster

A cleaner, an ironing lady, an au pair...

120 replies

emkana · 01/10/2004 23:20

... that's the help my friend has, while being a SAHM. Now when she and I and some other friends get together for a chat and have a moan, I just can't help thinking "What on earth are you complaining about?" She does have a three-year-old, a two-year-old and a small baby, but, wait for it: The oldest now goes to private kindergarten every day until 3.30 pm, the middle one goes to nursery every morning.
I keep thinking "So what do you do?"
Her dh works very long hours, so she says how tiring it is to do the bedtime routine on her own.
Am I being unfair and a cow? Or am I right?

OP posts:
hercules · 02/10/2004 09:17

Someone does the cleaing and ironing and an aupair as i understand it is usually a young girl who will not be able to have sole responsibility of 3 young kids.
That doesnt equate to all the housework nor all the childwork involved with looking after 3 young kids.
I cant see how that leaves her twiddling her thumbs all day.

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:18

Emkana - don't worry love, I'm with you on this one. And the issue for me would be if she's moaning about having no time, within a circle of friends who don't have this sort of help (whether they'd want it or not is beside the point) - it's really quite insensitive and annoying. I'd struggle to keep my mouth shut if she was moaning to me!!

Sorry for earlier comment re: nanny - she doesn't have one does she?

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:19

But she doesnt have a nanny does she?

PErhaps she sends them to nursery/school because she feels it is good for them socially.
PErhaps she suffers from depression.

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:20

Hercules - perhaps not but I for one spend a huge chunk of my time cleaning and ironing - with 3 children of 3 and under it's never ending. I wouldn't want anyone to do it for me, it's not my 'bag' BUT if I did, I know for a fact it would free up quite a lot of time to do other things.

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:20

Emkana - what does she actually complain about when you are together then?

kkgirl · 02/10/2004 09:21

Hercules

I do take objection to your statement. I was not saying that I am a better person by having to do these things. Unfortunately I don't have the money to pay someone to do these things, and if I did I might have some to help with ironing/cleaning.
Just making the point that a lot of people are not in the priviledged position of this woman, and have a lot more to complain about. I'm not complaining, I said I was proud that I managed to cope with it and still do. Thats not saying that I am better than someone else, is it?

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:21

Gotta go now - IRONING TO DO!!!

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:22

Lots of people dont enjoy the baby stage. I cant wait until dd is older. That doesnt make me less of a parent than anyone else.
It's great that people cope without help but that doesnt make you a better parent because you struggled.

Original poster
emkana · 02/10/2004 09:22

She complains about being so tired and rushed off her feet and never having dh around (and I really do sympathise with that last point - all the help in the world definitely doesn't make up for having a supportive partner)

OP posts:
hercules · 02/10/2004 09:23

I understood she was moaning about the bedtime routine. Arent we all entitled to have a moan at times no matter how easy our lifes look on the outside.

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:23

Hercules - I'm not sure Emkana is saying she is less of parent (are you Emkana?). I thought she was just saying she didn't feel she had grounds to complain about her situation.

Anyway, we don't know what she actually complains about yet. If she is complaining she doesn't see DH and she'd rather they shared all these things rather than paying 'staff' then fair enough.

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:24

Oops, cross posted sorry!

Really got to do ironing now!

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:26

You are probably right there skate but I do think it would be a sad world if we werent able to moan at times.
I moan at lots of stuff even though i am very lucky.
If we took it that way then noone would be entitled to moan as there will always be someone worse off than you.

kkgirl · 02/10/2004 09:26

Emkana

I'm afraid if she was my friend, well she wouldn't be because I would have to point out that in the great scheme of things, she doesn't have much to worry or complain about.
Maybe she is depressed, I can appreciate that her DH working long hours doesn't give her the support she needs, but this is the point I have been trying to get at, money isn't everything. Depending on his job, probably runs his own business, I'm guessing, couldn't he try to be home earlier to help? Or maybe she needs a night nanny.

Original poster
emkana · 02/10/2004 09:28

Of course I'm not saying she's less of a parent.
I think my bugbear is her decision to put her son into full-time school so early. I really don't get that at all. Surely he could benefit socially from just mornings or something? It's probably/definitely my problem, as I'm already sad at dd1 going to school next year when she's four, as I so enjoy the time with her, and I don't get it why you would want them to go to school full-time even before they have to.
Now before anybody starts: I know she only has the best intentions for her son, and loves him more than anything, but I still don't get it.

OP posts:
hercules · 02/10/2004 09:29

There could be one reason or a million for that.

hercules · 02/10/2004 09:30

But you dont have to get it. He's not your child and you're not making the decision.

kkgirl · 02/10/2004 09:31

OMG. I'm sorry I entered this debate.

Sadly, have to go, my dh has left me alone with 2 eight year olds today, so that he can go and watch car racing. They are wanting some breakfast, and only me to help.
Don't know about the bedtime routine being tiring what about the rest of the day!!!!!!

WideWebWitch · 02/10/2004 09:57

If she has a cleaning lady, ironer, etc etc, sfw? There's no virtue imo in doing tedious chores yourself. I see the main function of a SAHP as childcare so I completely see why anyone who could afford it would want help with house stuff. And bedtime with 3 must be hard, whatever you've been doing all day!

Skate · 02/10/2004 09:58

Hercules - you are right. Everyone's problems are their own and if 'x' is your problem then it's as big as it is for you, iyswim.

When I get stressed about our house not selling, my Dad will say ' there are people in Christies with cancer' - and he's right. Really I'm incredibly lucky and have absolutely nothing to complain about but I still do moan sometimes about things that at the time are important to me, but in the great scheme of things are not at all. If something stresses you out, it stresses you out and just because someone else's problem is bigger, doesn't make yours any less for you.

Batters · 02/10/2004 10:04

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Earlybird · 02/10/2004 10:06

OOOhhhhh - there's alot of judgements being passed here! I'm with pph - live and let live. Our grandmothers and greatgrandmothers might wonder what it is WE do all day with our modern conveniences - washing machines, microwaves, indoor plumbing, central heating, etc. It used to be that years ago all household chores were much more time consuming. Did it make those women somehow "better", or did it seem that somehow they "cared" more for their families because they had to work so much harder than we do? Of course not! Modern conveniences exist, we can afford them, so we have them in our homes!

I agree also with whoever said that it doesn't make you better or more dedicated if you do housework all day long, or do everything yourself without help. That said, I COMPLETELY respect the people who can do everything themselves without help. I have help around the house (nanny and cleaner), and of course I could do those things myself. However, I know that I am happier and a better parent by having help. And I realise how lucky I am to be able to afford it.

I agree that it is perhaps insensitive for the friend to complain to others who don't have (and perhaps would like) that sort of help. But, it also makes me wonder if there are other issues in her life. Try to be compassionate and look a little deeper. Or if you can't do that, maybe it's not the best idea to be friends with this woman. I can't imagine being judged so harshly by the people I go to for support.

Beetroot · 02/10/2004 10:33

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Beetroot · 02/10/2004 10:35

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kkgirl · 02/10/2004 11:12

I don't see why this is mumsnet at its worse. Emkana has a right to an opinion just as much as anyone else. She hasn't told us about her situation or the other friends which meet with this person, but obviously it is upsetting Emkana, and I would be upset too, if my friend was going on about her problems and I didn't think she had anything to complain about. In fact I do have a similar friend, a bit different situation, but I have tried to tell her in a gentle way, that we really don't have so much to complain about.

However, it is true, that we all have different stresses, and mainly hers could be, husband never around to support her.

I'm going to shut up now, and keep out of it, finally though, surely, mumsnet is a place, where people can say their opinions freely, and get to see other peoples' thoughts/advice on it too. If its not I don't see much point in having it.