Do YOU still believe in Tony?

[JoolsToo]

Just been watching BBC2 - just wondered what MNers thoughts were on our Prime Minister ....

Come on everyone - JoolsToo wants to know what was so bad about the Tory government?

JoolsToo, manpower does not take into account that there are women doing work out there too, so I don't have a problem with people not using it (I personally don't have a problem with people using it either, but if a woman police officer would find it offensive then I am happy for it not to be used. I think if a policewoman is prepared to carry out the very risky duties of her job then the least society can do is acknowledge her efforts and not ignoring it by using gender specific words which ignore her role.

If by the term disabled, you mean that many people prefer 'people with disabilities' rather than 'disabled people' then I am again happy with the change as the latter phrase places the emphasis on the disability rather than the people and I can see why there is a move to try and get society to 'see' the person rather than the disability.

So, I don't really see either of them as pc gone mad.

You ARE joking???

I think women complaining about the word manpower is just bloody ridiculous. It's just reading far too much into it and complaining about it is just a complete waste of time and resources.

Lets just get a grip here!

OK Skate. Shall try to be polite. I don't trust them, they introduced the poll tax, privatised everything in sight, ruined the nhs with too many adminstrators, had specific policies of high unemployment under Thatcher, they're very anti the euro which I would prefer we adopted, they're anti-Europe or anything not British, they have no decent statesmen and they're ridden with sleeze. Now that's before we talk about Mr Archer etc. Basically they're a bunch of self-serving twats. Does that help?

LOL!

I haveahorrible feeling that a Tory government would have sucked up to George Busheven more than the current government so they are a worse option. Also, the Tories did opted out of the 'social legislation' from the EU and if they hadbeen in power, we would still be without a any right to paid holidays for many workers, very little protection for part-time workers, and other atypical workers who increasingly make up the working population. We would also, as someone else has pointed out, be without a national minimum wage, paternity leave, parental leave and maternity leave would be a maximum of 29 weeks rather than a year.

So, no way will I be supporting them.

Ok, here goes.

1. Massively overvalued currency in 1981, leading to huge fall in manufacturing output and an enormous rise in unemployment, which destroyed many people's livelihoods in the 1980s.
2. Big cuts in spending on education and health. Rises in class sizes in schools, selling off of playing fields etc. Enormous damage done to the university sector as well.
3. Tax cuts for the wealthy, coupled with cuts in social security spending etc. Couple this with the rise in unemployment and you get a big increase in income inequality and a very large increase in poverty. Large rise in the proportion of children living in poverty.

These are just facts. Depending on your political views, you might also think about the damage done by the miners' defeat to people living in communities where the mines have closed and the insidious racism of the Thatcher/Major immigration and asylum policies (now taken up by Labour, of course). I would also pick up on the damage done to our social fabric by the turbo-capitalism of the 1980s, epitomised by Thatcher's statement that there is no such thing as society.

The trouble with Tony is that he hasn't done much to reverse this.

Oh and don't forget their horrendous attitude to single mothers (think that was the now miraculously reformed Mr Portillo) and their habit of sg mistresses while pontificating on family values.
Gummer feeding daughter hamburgers..

No Skate I am not joking - I am not a woman police officer putting my life on the line for the benefit of society as a whole but I know that there are police women out there who suffer a lot of sex discrimination in their work (from some of their colleagues) and if it helps them to not have their role in the police force totally ignored then I think it is okay to stop using the term manpower and use a non-gender specific term instead. As I said, I don'tpersonally have a problem with the word, but I am happy to respect the wishes of those whom it affects more directly than me. I accept that sometimes, in order to get a big change in culture, you have to consider all aspects of how things are done including using words which have previously been considered by most people to be harmless.

If anyone would like to send a message to Tony himself on the subject of Iraq click here

oh cab, you beat me to the single mothers bit What did John Redwood suggest? They should have them adopted?

Much as there is much wrong with this govt they (under Gordon Brown really) have done much to try to reduce child poverty, WFTC was godsend to many people. I don't want to return to a time of a "We'll help those who are very able to help themsleves but not those who aren't very able". I don't want to return to a boom and bust economy.

Howard's only, ONLY redeeming feature is that he admits he was wrong to support the death penalty.

aloha - misinformed nonsense? absolutely not - it the police service you must say 'person with a disability'

The one major thing this government has done, and much as I hate them I have to give them credit for it, is tax credits.

They have genuinely made "work pay" for a large number of people who previously were better off on the dole. I am a prime example of someone who benefits - My job pays me about £50 more per month than I would get on the dole, so if it weren't for tax credits, I would simply not be able to afford to work (would not be able to afford childcare, running a car, etc.)

The Tories had absolutely no dynamic, pro-active policies about making low paid work a realistic option, Skate. They were content to let people rot on the dole on some of the lowest benefits in Europe, and they didn't mind that during their term of office, one whole third of children in this country came to be living in social exclusion. They still have no policy which addresses that.

That's one good reason for not voting for them. I must do some work, so will just stop at that one!

Don't get me started about John Redwood! He seems to think it's fun being a single mum and that they are all having a great laugh living the high life on their benefits instead of working. He also apparently believes that all single mums are single by choice. Either naive or totally bigoted but should never be in a position to make decisions about other peoples' lives with his limited knowledge of the subject.

I hate Tony and all he stands for as well as Blunkett and Hodge and Hain and Mrs Blair - they are all cretins and yes I agree some of the things they have done are worthwhile but look at what they promised and then look at what they have acheived and the lies that they have told. Tone actually said he had apologised for sending us into this useless war when he never has - he refuses to enter into negotiation with these Iraqi Terrorists when he thought it ok to do so with the Irish ones and my big beef - give the scottish and welsh natinoal assemblies but stuff the English - FFS even saying you are English or being proud of it is considered wrong and racist these days - something that I largely believe is perpetuated by this goverment.

Oh the NHS thing - yes they are spending more money but admin & management are being recruited at 3 times the rate of clinical staff!!

Joolstoo - I think a lot of what you say is right but then again I am probabyl consdiered a bloodt facist by lots of people I know and a few on here I have no doubt!!

Twinkie, Twinkie, what a star! thank you.

But when did any government ever do what it said it was going to? I think that is the problem: we don't live in a democracy, we live in an elective dictatorship. Once we've voted, we have absolutely no say at all in government for the next 5 years. In a real democracy, governments would not be able to renege on promises they made in election manifestos - they would have a legal obligation to carry out manifesto pledges, or call a re-election.

Joolstoo - the reason for guidance to refer to person with a disability rather than disabled person is that this puts the individual first and the disbaility second rather than letting a person be defined by it. This is supported by all disabled rights charities as far as I know. I agree with Aloha - I think people who rail against so called pc terminology have forgotten who far we have come in the last few years.

I think the other major thing this gvmt has done is completely reverse the debate on public services - that the electorate want better public services but are reluctant to pay extra taxes to fund them. Meaning that the Tories are facing harder questions about how they will pay for services if they lead on a tax cutting agenda.

I don't think we've 'come far' in the last few years. I think the world's gone bloody mad.

Think pensions should be a bit of a hot topic this time around. Broon's stolen £5 billion from pensioners so far.

Maybe the Tories will stop flushing money into a war that was never wanted (although I know they backed it - stupidest thing they ever did IMO) and hopefully they will cut down the numebr of CCs we have and the money pumped into administration of Public Services.

I am just appalled at the way TB and his cronies and his wife act like they are whiter than white and they just seem to be lying and getting away with it whilst trashing the rest of the political world saying how morally reprehensible they are.

And I believe that he should say whether Leo has had the MMR - I don't feel at all confident with DS having his if the very guy behind the policies which dictate that our child must be treated a certain way does not follow said policies and does not allow for funding of an alternative for those who might also have the same concerns as him!!

And not particularly bothered by all the p.c. stuff but the growth of the nanny state really pees me off. Don't believe all their police checks etc are worth the papaer they're written on and know too many ladies who would have made brilliant childminders who have given up cos of the beaurocracy attached. As for playgroups and schools and hospitals - jeez - dump the paperwork and let people just get on with their jobs!

Yes Pensions too - all the f'ing MPs will be getting theirs - Neil Kinnock is in line for a huge payout after fighting for 'workers' for so many years now he doesn't give a shit - is retiring and rubbing his hands together whilst we are all told that we will have to work till we are 100 to get back any of the money we have paid in over the years!!

And the whole Ken Livingstone thing has severly hacked me off too!!

Cmon Twinkie - you know the Tories would have been leading the way into that war!

Yes I know they would have silly IMO could have been big vote winner but maybe they will pull out and not be like Tone and has to stay so he looks like he is standing by his convictions and his best mate.