Slagging Off The Childcare Gurus

[susanmt]

I'll not start it, I just created the thread!!

Have to own up to also finding Gina Ford routine related questions rather perplexing, I just can't relate to it but of course if it works for you, then fab!. The only advice I really look for and use is that of other mothers which is why I find Mumsnet such a great resource.

croppy, phillipat - specifically didn't want to call attention to any remarks by named individuals to avoid raking over the coals and stoking up the argument again. so my comments were not meant as a sly dig, in case that's what you are thinking!

i'm baffled, perplexed, puzzled - nay, bamboozled and discombobulated...

... as to why no-one else wants to slag off Andrew Wakefield?

I would actually be keener on slagging off the pressure groups/certain elements of the media who have misrepresented and sensationalised his research than Andrew Wakefield himself but don't let me stop you Bossykate!!.

yes, bells, them too! them too!

If ther's no-one who'll say that M Stoppard is great, how come so many of the toys I buy for dd come with her 'recommendation'? Talk about money for old rope!

You wouldn't want to be in my house when Andrew Wakefield is mentioned - my dh is a mild mannnered man until Dr W is quoted ..........

Aloha - re miriam stoppard - can I be your seconder? We could do it like that tag wrestling - take it in turns to put the boot in.

I've only just read the drama on this thread. Blimey! Ks, at the idea of you attending an Gin aFord Anger Management course. I'd never heard of Gina Ford before I came to this site and, from what I've gathered, her methods aren't for me. But no, I haven't read the book (and don't particularly want to). It is interesting though, how defensive people get about her methods. Whoever said they don't see devotees of other childcare gurus biting the heads off people who disagree with them seems (IMVHO) to be right. Often all hell breaks loose when GF is mentioned...and I agree with Bells: I'm baffled by some of the questions GF followers ask but if it works for them, great. Aloha, I don't reckon you'll find anyone prepared to stick up for Miriam Stoppard and give you a good fight on the subject (so choose another ) but Phillapat, your feeble defence of the woman made me laugh...

Hmm, KS, I think my comments too...

I'm still with Aloha and Croppy and while I never meant to offend anyone I stand by my comments.

Am absolutely loving this thread. Don't stop!

Better than any slanging match that Peggy Mitchell and Pauline Fowler could offer!

Handbags at dawn anyone?

I wonder whether the hurt caused by anti-GF comments might relate to the fact that fans can interpret criticism of her routines as meaning that by following them, mothers are somehow out of tune with their babies? needs. It might in a way be similar to the old SAHM vs working mother debate. While criticism of SAHM?s is obviously hurtful, it does tend to focus on things such as their not making a financial contribution, lack of independence or whatever . This sort of comment is oviously upsetting but not quite so painful as the allegation that by working, you are neglecting your child and are therefore a bad mother. In other words, I wonder if it is because it is mothering skills which are under the sportlight rather than other issues that it becomes so sensitive?. Although of course it still doesn?t explain why this thread isn?t full of uppity Christopher Green followers defending smacking and so on.

*Disclaimer ? Just for the record, 1 do not think that GF followers are out of tune with their babies needs, that SAHM?s are dull or that working mothers are bad mothers?..

Well said bells2!!

I think that one of the things re. followers of GF is that the accusation is often that they are getting their babies to fit in with them. Our dd is now in a routine of her own devising and if I deviate from that then she really gets cross and we don't get any sleep. This now means that I can't go out for lunch as it's nap-time, and even my afternoons with friends have to be arranged around her schedule. Whereas friends whose babies still prefer the hippy life can go to the pub for lunch! My point being that routines (whether GF or otherwise) are more baby-centred than a lot of people realise. I think that if Gf's tone was different then more people would find her acceptable.

I agree ionesmum, I 'sacrifice' any lunchtime outings more often than not so that dd can have a good nap (never sleeps in buggy) and feel refreshed for the afternoon - and it usually prevents tantrums caused by over-tiredness too. we have the odd outing to say the zoo where she's fine if distracted often enough and allowed a bit of quiet time, but her own routine we've established (part gina, part dd) suits us fine. I met GF once and although she was v nice, spoke a lot of sense I couldn't help thinking that bringing up her own child might make her a little less dogmatic!

Funnily enough, I've stopped going out at lunchtime too, cos ds loves his midday sleep and I love being at home and having some quiet pottering time. However, so glad I didn't do that when he was tiny, and had lots of time out/long lunches/trips to the Tate Modern etc with friends when he would sleep anywhere and I was still reeling in babyshock! I think it would have really blighted my early days with him if I didn't get out loads to show him off/speak to other adults/enjoy the freedom of my maternity leave. Breastfeeding meant I could go anywhere at any time with him and it was fab. I miss it really, that freedom with just him and me, roaming all over, and know I'll never have another time like it again (as any future newborn would have to fit around ds). I'm glad he found his own routine in the end and would do it all the same way again, despite the horror of his early sleeplessness. For me, doing GF would really have meant missing out. Obviously GF fans feel very differently.

So, nobody loves Miriam then?

I won't even have Miriam in the house

Miriam has very little to do with her books bar raking in the cash they produce. She is a brand, not a writer. Look at the huge list of editorial credits on all her more recent books.

I know a publisher who had dealings with her. She (MS) is not especially well-informed about the baby stuff at all, and leaves most of this stuff to others to write.

ionesmum - you have made such a good point about routines -s many of the books go on about making your baby fit into your life and your routines. Several of my friends almost brag about how they don?t let their baby affect them still "having a life", socialising, working, going out all the time etc.. I know it is important to have time for ourselves and routine plays a part in this, but the babies? own individual routine surely has to take priority. The GF route may work for some babies, but I wonder who gets the real benefit out of being so strict and arbitrary when it comes to routine.
Shame Miriam isn?t a regular mumsnetter - I would love to see her respond to these postings (all of which I agree with...), GF too for that matter.

In my ignorance I bought the Miriam Stoppard books (pregnancy and first year) - so whats wrong with them? Again I'm asking from ignorance cos I've not read many others to compare. Sure that my greatest source of knowledge/advice has been Mumsnet.

but Bundle and Ionesmum, surely all parenting involves some 'sacrifice' for want of a better word. No matter how determined you are that a baby won't change your life, they do, of course they do. Is there anything more life-changing than having a baby???