Slagging Off The Childcare Gurus

[susanmt]

I'll not start it, I just created the thread!!

jenny, I agree totally, but there does seem to be a myth that if your baby is in a routine it's so that the baby causes as little disruption to your life as possible. I was just pointing out that it's not the case - no more pub lunches! I use attatchment parenting ideas for dd's sleep (I don't leave her to cry - but have no problem with those that do) but she is definitely happier now she's in a predictable daily routine. Three month's ago she hated it!

I just think it's unnatural for young children to adhere to rigid routines. It's not for the baby's convenience, so who is it for?

ionesmum, i agree. some people we know are totally anti routine - the main reason they give is because the baby should fit in with their lives, not the other way round. i do appreciate there are many other reasons for not agreeing with routines (not wanting to start WWIII or would it be IV? )- but have heard this particular one more than once from friends/acquaintances.

jenny, ionesmum pointed out that her baby seems happier in a routine - so in her case maybe it is for the baby's convenience/comfort etc.

jenny, it most definitely is for dd's convenience! Going out at lunchtime was something that I loved and I can't do it any more. If dd doesn't nap for about 1 and a half to two hour's after lunch then she is grouchy during her dinner and doesn't eat a lot. This means that the afternoon that I spend with friends is shorter as I wait for her nap to be over. I don't watch the clock, just do things in a certain order - I suppose our days might vary by half and hour at most. Since doing this dd has gone from waking at 10.30 in the morning and going to sleep between midnight and two a.m. to waking at 9 and going to bed at 9 - without the screaming that she used to do some nights. She also feeds better, too.

Oh, and something else about routines - to someone like me who hates routines it's as boring as hell to do the same things over and over - but I do it for my little one.

I don't do routine because it bores me to the point of insanity. We have a rhythm to the days -- wake, breakfast, out, back, maybe nap, tea, play, sleep. I don't begrudge routine if it keeps the parents sane, but agree it's for us, not the kids.

With 1st baby someone (smugly) told me about TCLBB and I felt like a real failure becuz I wasn't in control of baby's habits. I tried imposing routine, crying it out. Not very successful. I got really obsessed with trying to figure out when baby would be hungry, sleep, etc.

With 2nd baby I am SO laid back. Don't really know nowadays when or even if kids will eat, sleep, bathe. Or where -- sometimes they end up in our bed, often I sleep downstairs if my bed gets crowded. It's wonderful!!! Just take things as they come.

Back to topic? I don't like Miriam Stoppard because she says rubbish advice about aerobic exercise in pregnancy. Penelope Leach -- you read the book but can't remember it saying anything. For such a practical guy in other respects, Chris Green should be open-minded about co-sleeping.

Tracy Hogg is sort of sickly coy (blech).

I think the key word is rigid. I don't adhere to a routine by the minute...it's a flexible pattern to the day, sounds a bit like yours, zebra, a nice relaxed day. the reason I do what I do is dd benefits - she's not too tired to do things in the afternoon if she gets her nap..a happy side effect is i get to put my feet up watching crap tv for an hour or even 40 winks

I think the key word is rigid. I don't adhere to a routine by the minute...it's a flexible pattern to the day, sounds a bit like yours, zebra, a nice relaxed day. the reason I do what I do is dd benefits - she's not too tired to do things in the afternoon if she gets her nap..a happy side effect is i get to put my feet up watching crap tv for an hour or even 40 winks

Maybe another point...I am happy to debate this and don't really mind if people are passionately against what I say. I don't go in for slanging matches and it is not about individuals.

I am confident that the decisions I have made are the right ones for myself and my children. It makes me wonder if those who get so defensive and upset are suffering guilty consciences/doubt about what they're saying. Maybe I'm wrong, but why get so wound up otherwise?

Why don't I like Gin aFord? The tone, and the fact that it is not a catch all solution for all. If you read the book (and I have) it reads as if ALL babies will DEFINITELY follow the routine and ALL babies should, and that there is no excuse for not doing it her way, and you will only have yourself to blame if you dont. And she does seem to assume that all babies have very similar needs re sleep, feeds etc. As an example, my children just arent tired after 2 hours in the morning, no matter what she says about all babies being tired then. If i had tried putting them down 2 hours after they woke up, then we would have had screaming fits - but with ds, if I put him down after 2hrs 45 mins he goes straight to sleep.
And also because I cannot understand anyone who would choose to wake their baby up at 7 in the morning! And also as I have seen two friends struggle with breastfeeding on the routines, and ultimately give up bf rather than give up the routine which was making bf hard, and that I cant understand at all. I know some people say it has saved their bf career, I'm not disputing that, it's just I've seen it work the other way.

But ultimately there isn't one solution that will work for everyone - which is one of the issues I have. How can anyone write a book and say "This is what you should be doing with your child" different things work for different people.

jenny, I will have to be honest and say that I am offended by the implication that having our dd in a routine is for my convenience. I'm sorry, but that's not on. Dd used to scream for as long as 2 hrs every night before going to sleep - do you think that she enjoyed that? Now she goes down with hardly a murmur, and if she wakes I go straight to her. When she is asleep, day or night, I often have to lie on the bed with her beside me because she is happier to have me there. Today I didn't go shopping with dh because he left at dd's nap time and it'd have been unfair on her even though I really wanted to go. She's eating better now that her feeds are structured, so much so that she's moved up a percentile.

So why do I get defensive? Because you are saying that I don't care as much about dd as I should. We nearly lost her at birth and there is no baby on this earth who is loved as much as she is. And since she has found her routine and I help her to keep to it she is much happier, brighter and enjoys life more.

But if you want to think that all this is for my convenience that's up to you.

susan, I agree about Gf being too 'one size fits all'. Our dd is never going to start the day at 7 a.m.!

Ooh Jenny - you might want to tone it down love!

On a lighter side - what about that Jane whasserface, who bakes cakes? Bloody perfect mother who does home cooking, perfect house, perfect kids, perfect bloody life! Libby Purves is much more my style!

Enough of the GF debate.... Get a life

We ALL do what we believe is best for our child... and if one side of the argument can't see that - their loss... I am not waisting my time defending my choices - no one will change their mind on this.... it's a bit like MMR...

Don't bust a gut you lot! It's just a debate! I used GF too, but if people don't like her then fair dos, they are obviously much more confident than I was with my first! It would be great if we didn't have to rely on parenting books, but everyone needs a bit of help from time to time and if family aren't there, we turn to the so-called professionals. Might not be to everyone's taste, but if it works who gives a flying duck what anyone thinks? Stick with it Pupuce, you and I are happy with GF, so all's cool with us!

Jane Asher!!! Thanks to dh for that - mine of useless bits of information he is!

Listen everyone, I am really sorry if my comments have offended. They weren't meant to. I was just expressing my feelings on the issue.

Ionesmum, you in particular seem to have taken my comments to heart. I never meant to imply you don't care as much about your dd as you should. I don't know you and I would never make any kind of judgement like that about you. I have been speaking generally, and certainly never meant my words to be taken as personally as they have.

Tbh, I do like a good argument (What can I say, I'm my father's daughter!) but I never meant anyone to take offence. This thread was meant to be lighthearted and it's all got a bit heated. Fwiw I'm sorry.

Lol, it's lucky I wasn't planning on coming to the meet-up - I think I'd be lynched...

IMO there's nothing wrong in doing some things to make your own life a little bit easier. Be it GF, dummies, nursery care whatever. I didn't bother with either of the first two, but if it works for you and your child great. Let's face it, yes we want our kids to have a brilliant life but we shouldn't forget that we're allowed a bit of relief too.

Gosh, if we're into cooking people, what about b***y perfect Nigella? Drives me bonkers!

funny how this thread has moved to tv chefs! i was thinking what tv chef would certain gurus be? i thought penelope leach would be nigella - sounds absolutely wonderful, but doesn't stand the test of practicality. sheila kitzinger - hugh fearnley whittingstall. didn't he once make pate out of placenta - i always imagine that's the sort of thing sheila would be into. have never read any of her books, so could be very wide of the mark here! i struggled a bit with gina - then remembered nigel slater stating in very stern tones in the introduction to one his books "when i say salt, i mean maldon sea salt" - which sounded quite strict and bossy to me, so he gets my vote to be gina.

don't think i get out enough, actually!