Slagging Off The Childcare Gurus

[susanmt]

I'll not start it, I just created the thread!!

mears, our house is really chaotic so all the mess and clobber that comes with dd doesn't bother me at all. The part that I've found hardest is that I used to spend my evenings/weekends reading and I just don't have the time any more, the last fiction book that I read was when I was in hospital. If I do have time to read it's a book on weaning, or sleep, or routines...

Know what you mean. Now my kids are grown up the books I read are on the latest Maternity Strategy or for my Masters in Midwifery. How sad is that.
Mind you I am trying to read Billy Connolly's biography - as a point of trying to become normal again.

Do you ever become normal after having a baby?

Definately not. Then, what is normal? Maybe we are all abnormal prior to having babies

mears

That Penelope Leach, with her 'just talk cheerfully to baby and he'll love to sit in the kitchen watching you peel potatoes....' What???? Even GF never talked such abject rubbish. She admits babies cry when you ignore them (just that she doesn't care whether they do or not). As for the Babywhisperer, she's so up her own a*se doing her quizzes she wouldn't notice if the baby fell off a cliff. Can't remember a word of Christopher Greene, just know that anything he said was so vague as to be of no use whatsoever.

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my dh threw my GF book away as he said life stressful enough already without imposing such seemingly complex and arbitrary rules. Although I shouted at him at the time, I did feel a hell of a lot better when it made me stop trying to impose a routine that was making all of us unhappy. For me, GF made me feel less able to cope and more of a failure for not sticking to it!

(However, like bloss, I feel that it is unreasonable to make it personal. If you don?t like the books or they are creating more problems than they are solving then chuck them in the bin - or better, pop them in a local charity shop for someone else to get some use out of them. For every critic there is potentially someone who could get a little bit ofhelp from them.)

Sorry, wickedwaterwitch - I just don?t agree ! Personally, I really like the What To Expect series as do many of my friends. The first year one is better than the Toddler years but both have been really useful and reaasuring at times. I know that they have more of an American audience in mind but are still thoughtfully written and full of sensible advice.

Oh I've missed all this whilst I've been away!

The only book I bought was the Sheila Kitzinger one. Once I read that the baby was the 'fruit of my womb' I knew it was an uh-oh moment! In fact, I've just gone to look at it again. What has struck me is that a: everyone seems to have simpering smiles and b: there seem to be far too many beards for my liking - one man appears to be in his boxer shorts whilst his partner gives birth - why??

Being a Spock baby myself, we used to like sniggering at the 'rude' drawings of breastfeeding mothers when we were kids.

I'm with CAM on this - more of a flexible rountine person.

Robin so I'm not the only one! When I was having nightmares with b/f it was the last thing I needed.

Another vote for Rebecca Ambram's book "3 socks etc". I found it incredibly negative and downright unhelpful.

Some well-meaning but misguided soul lent DH a copy of a book called "You're pregnant too, mate". As this is no.4 I think he's got the sugar-craving, trashy film thing that my pregnant hormones inspire sussed (gave me a box of doughnuts to eat while I watched Notting Hill and he went out), but this book is so dire. It seems to be aimed at those unfortunate fHM readers who've been duped by some "bird" into fatherhood, and devotes a lot of time to explaining that if you do the washing-up then you can go to the pub...

As for the rest, only thing I've found helpful was GF, probably because it reassured me that I am not weird to want my kids to sleep and not be permanently attached to me. as for the routines, my little angels sorted themselves out with a little guidance and never had quantities at GF recommended times...Don't like tone of Vicki Iovine, too American for me, Christopher Greene urgh...That said, I've only ever flicked through them in the bookshop. By the way is there a book called "my child is ready to potty-train but I'm not"? I need it.

Demented, at last someone has mentioned that sodding book three shoes, two socks and no brains or whatever it's called. A "well-meaning" friend bought it for me when I was expecting DD (no 2) and I was alternately panicked/made furious by it. When she finally said how she didn't go out on her own (ie just her and the kids) until the second one was ONE YEAR OLD (with a then 3yo toddler) I just threw the book away (gave it to charity actually). I'm sorry to be stroppy but me and DS would have been bouncing off the walls if we hadn't escaped to the park/shops/wherever on a daily basis during DD's first year. What's the matter with this woman? Felt like telling her to pull herself together and get with it - after all, surely one of your main duties is to your children, to give them a nice time, not just stay in the house in your dressing gown all day. How hard is it to get two children dressed and walk round the block? If anyone has read the book while expecting number 2 and panicked, believe me - it's fine, it's fantastic having 2, well actually it's what you make it, and that can be whatever you want i truly believe.

Totally agree Clary. What got to me about it was not just how absurdly negative she was but that she didn't really provide any useful practial tips as to how to make looking after a toddler and a newborn easier. I got many more useful pointers from a couple of people like Pupuce via Mumsnet than in the entire book.

I am genuinely and absolutely totally baffled by how personally people take attacks on Gina Ford. We hate her, not you - you are not one and the same person! And actually, I don't hate her, but would absolutely hate to have her in charge of my baby. All that leaving them to cry for hours and hours - awful (and yes, I have read the book, and it's packed full of terrible, and what's worse, cheery, anecdotes about babies crying and crying. Some of this crying is described as fussing etc, but it's still crying). Gave me the creeps, TBH. I don't see dozens of Vicky Iovine devotees telling people to leave her alone! OR Penelope Leach-ites, either. Also, having breakfast by 8am isn't vital for breastfeeding. Nor, particularly is good nutrition. Breast milk is breast milk , regardless of what you eat. Even malnourished mothers in Africa produce roughly the same milk as a vitamin-stuffed Western mothers, so I really don't see why it's a problem if I have my toast at 10.30 instead. It's terribly funny to read such bossy instructions aimed at grown ups, who, presumably have been feeding themselves quite succesfully for some years...

PLEASE don't take this personally....

aloha, a number of the messages have criticised not just the book, and not just gf, but the people who use the book, and request advice on routines here on mumsnet. this has not been the case with any of the other books mentioned here - which presumably accounts for the difference in reaction you mention.

write out 100 times - i must NOT get in involved in GF threads, i must NOT get in involved in GF threads etc.

anyway, things have calmed down quite a lot!

It's so strange, I just honestly don't see those criticisms here (I read down the thread briefly). What am I missing?? I don't have any emotional attachment to any book because I read them all, then ds came along and didn't fit in to any of them, and the more I compared him to the books the more unhappy I was, and disatisfied with myself as a mother, so basically chucked them all out for a few months, then felt able to pick and choose bits of advice here and there (still found most of it was utter rubbish that didn't work, though!). I think a bit of crying is fine, just not hours and hours. Likewise a bit of routine, just not one that rules your life. Back to the thread: I loathe the tone of Miriam Stoppard, who implied it was cruel to put your children to bed, and instead let them run around until they collapsed with exhaustion on the floor, which I thought was A. nuts B. very unfair on the kids.

When I was expecting no 4 it was most refreshing to note that there were no helpful gurus guiding me on my descent into madness...you're on your own there, mate!

well, my resolution not to comment any more is right up there with must quit smoking and no alcohol on schoolnights!

there are at least two major examples here. was going to copy and paste them into this reply but decided that was just too petty.

i think things are much more harmonious now aloha, are you stirring by any chance?

Absolutely. Any Miriam Stoppard fans out there want a good fight?

Heehee - I wish I liked Miriam Stoppard enough to have a good argument with you, Aloha as I could do with a good fight (sick baby, grumpy dh, house in a mess, too much ironing etc.). However, I am totally with you on this one. Try as I might I just cannot stick up for the woman. The books are just pitifully bad. Oh well. We could go back to Gina Ford if you like? (only joking )

Aloha I completely agree with you. I think Bossykate may be referring to my message where I described my bafflement at questions posted on mumsnet by Fordies who ask for advice re routines. This was certianly not meant as personal criticism. I would fully expect Fordies to be as equally baffled if I posted a message along the lines of "my 8 month old who has slept in my bed with since birth continues to wake up 6 or so times a night demanding a feed". I was simply trying to highlight how strange GinaFord's philosophy can seem to some of us.

My own views on parenting are ridiculed on this thread countless times but I don't take it personally.

Right Aloha, I enjoyed watching the fight below so much, I'll try and take you up on your challenge! (sorry guys, I'm sure it must have been emotional torment for you, but it was better than Eastenders for the rest of us. bossykate, can I also take this opportunity to apologise for calling GF a fascist - obviously that word is a lot more loaded with meaning in your house than ours so I can see how it would hurt, maybe I shouldn't have shared that particular nickname from home).

Now admittedly, I gave up reading the MS book I got from the library because she didn't mention morning sickness and I was puking 5x daily at the time, but I've just googled her so I'm ready....

How dare you describe MS as nuts. Don't you know she prefers a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc to a French one, clearly the woman would be a lovely person to have round for dinner.

(That was pretty feeble I admit, so I'm hoping you can cme up with a good response because my workday is very boring so far...)