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Original poster

Anyone want to discuss whether there is any justification to viewing a scene of graphic violence

120 replies

Twiglett · 04/08/2007 09:29

I was just responding to Leati regarding the viewing of the prisoner beating video when the thread was pulled.

I do think that the discussion was probably worthwhile .. and I heartily applaud the thread being pulled.

My question is this

What is the moral justification for clicking on a link you have been pre-warned is a realtime video of graphic violence against a prisoner convicted of viewing paedophiliac images

How is it any different from clicking on a link that is real video of graphic violence against anyone else?

OP posts:
DaddyJ · 04/08/2007 09:30

The thread got pulled before I could post this:

Sorry, UCM, my midnight post was misleading:
I was genuinely nodding approval at your thread.

This type of material - immigration, justice etc -
is very difficult to discuss but it is important to have
the discussion.

I presume the video was too graphic. Fair enough.
Shame - the rest of the discussion was useful.

Trinityrhino · 04/08/2007 09:31

Dont think there is a difference.
But surely its a little like rubbernecking at an accident?
Not right but some people do it.

totaleclipse · 04/08/2007 09:34

I din'nt watch the video, and I understand where you are coming from. regardless of the circunstances and nature, it is footage of abuse, therefore unwatchable, and I know drug dealers are scum, but it seems very harsh punishment, and I know I will be flamed for saying, I pity the guy that recieved the whipping.

TranquilaManana · 04/08/2007 09:42

i read te OP. cant say i felt any desire to watch the vid tho. left it unclicked.and i dont think im particularly soft or anything, but why would i need/want to see it? the description was enough. for me.

startouchedtrinity · 04/08/2007 09:44

I'm uaware of the thread, but IMO to respond to violence with violence, to dwell on that kind of thing, to look at it even if you don't approve, just allows the evil to multiply like a virus.

There is something deeply disturbing about the way paedophiles are targeted by the more violent members of our society, both in and out of jail. It's as though because they are paedophiles it doesn't matter what is done to them. Whereas the reality is that a society or section of society that allows violence to be done, that actually approves of it, even glories in it, is committing that violence against itself.

TranquilaManana · 04/08/2007 09:47

hear hear starTT. i agree with every word.

totaleclipse · 04/08/2007 09:47

Hang on, that prisoner was a drug dealer,right? not a paedophile.

UCM · 04/08/2007 16:50

Yes, thread pulled. Thats life, but it wasn't some seedy mad internet site. The video is on the Daily Mail website. Its very heavy going and you would need a heart of stone not to be affected by it. Fair enough that the thread was deleted, I did put a huge warning in the title though.

DaddyJ · 04/08/2007 18:47

Surprised MNHQ erased it, sorry I was not around to fight your corner, UCM.
There was nothing wrong with your OP.

Maybe this place is getting a bit more Netmumish.

Did you get an explanation/warning from Justine?

UCM · 04/08/2007 20:03

One or two people whose politics are so far removed from mine complained I think. So it was censored. I think this is whats wrong with todays world. Shut away the bloody horrible news, get a load of academics to think up an evening class for everything to do with social behaviour or a programme of some sort and it will get better.

Haven't we been doing this for about 20 years in this country and it bloody well hasn't got better. Thugs get younger, murders get nastier and general behaviour has descended into near anarchy.

But I expect someone will come along in a mo, to tell me that I am heinous & vile and that this isn't a barbaric country. Perhaps if we as a nation were a little more barbaric to the pond scum that ruins life for everyone else, it would provide a deterrent - a real one, one that actually frightens the living daylights out of people and makes them not want to commit crimes and generally abuse everyone they come across.

The programs/counselling and educating is not working.

UCM · 04/08/2007 20:04

And no, Dj I didn't.

FrannyandZooey · 04/08/2007 20:06

I presume it was pulled because you were advocating brutal violence be doled out to people whose behaviour you don't like

AFAIK that is illegal

UCM · 04/08/2007 20:07

Yes, and I fail to see how I am breaking the law by suggesting it on an internet forum.

FrannyandZooey · 04/08/2007 20:10

I think incitement to violence is illegal wherever you express it

I may be wrong, perhaps it isn't illegal

it's certainly abhorrent

oops · 04/08/2007 20:22

Message withdrawn

bigmouthstrikesagain · 04/08/2007 20:26

The fact that your thread was deleted ucm gave me hope that internet self regulation is possible. I found it offensive despite getting drawn into the debate I didn't complain but I can understand why some did.

Your opinions about the disintegration of society (spare the rod spoil the child etc.) I totally disagree with, but you have the right to hold them of course. I am not despairing about the removal of the thread - we still have free speech on MN - and the right to complain.

Just can't help musing that in the godd ole US of A - where in many states the prisons are extremely brutal and death penalty is alive and well the crime rate still beats ours. Still I am sure you are right UCM they are probably still too lenient on their criminals and perverts

Prison system in the uk is underfunded and overcrowded - p'haps rehab would work if they had the funding and support - as it is they are too busy trying to manage the population and stop them killing themselves, etc. etc.

Original poster
Twiglett · 04/08/2007 20:31

but is anyone examining their OWN motives in viewing the video

UCM phrased her title and post well enough for me to know that this wouldn't be a link I'd feel it appropriate to click on. I got enough of an insight into what could be seen

My question is what differentiates those who clicked to view scenes of graphic violence committed against a prisoner from those who click to view scenes of graphic violence committed against a child?

OP posts:
Pan · 04/08/2007 20:32

I was 'responsible' for complaining 3-4 times about this. Am not aware of other posters reporting it. Justine pulled it this morning.

Watching a naked person being flogged has no place on a parenting website, IMVHO. There are other sites, that Mr Langham MAY have visited, where it could have been viewed.

Also, the justification bythe OP was absurd, and unrelated to the topic she wished discussed. She was drunk and possibly seeking attention. She admits the former.

Discussing the act of posting the video nasty was pretty good. Having any chance of discussing sex offenders in a good way was sunk from the start.

UCM · 04/08/2007 20:36

Sorry, I was on the phone.

F&Z I find it abhorrent that people are literally getting away with murder.

BMSA, The countries that are using this sort of punishment do not have the resources that this country has as they are mostly very poor countries. But you are unlikely to experience the sorts of crimes that occur in this country for the reasons that they do.

For instance. There is a current thread about a father & son who were playing cricket and the father was killed by children, yes children. These children are already in this whole 'lets love everyone to death, that might work culture'. Birching and all corporal punishments were banned years & years ago? But I am bloody sure that these sorts of crimes didn't happen in the 1970's. I may be wrong, but if anyone can find any info on these sorts of crimes, please link to it.

Your comment about the USA is not valid here because every bit of the UK is policed and has similar resources. As the floods last year showed in America, there are parts of it that are still in the 3rd world almost.

UCM · 04/08/2007 20:37

Oh Pan, you are always right of course. How very dare I disagree with you. Predictable as ever.

mamazon · 04/08/2007 20:37

i was part of the debate last night but i did not watch teh video.

i see no need for anyone to watch someone being beaten until their skin shreds.
to know it has happened is enough, to see the pictures of his wounds was far more than enough...to watch the film would be pornographic.

maybe those who watched did not believe that he had been whipped? they wanted to make sure, to see for themselves.

i would hope no one here found pleasure in seeing a man being wounded like taht

UCM · 04/08/2007 20:38

and do you have to bring personal insults into everything

Pan · 04/08/2007 20:38

no ucm..MNHQ disagreed with you.

bigmouthstrikesagain · 04/08/2007 20:39

the USA is 3rd world????? Leati, Leati where are you -

I bet they spend more on their prisons than we do - well more on the building of them at any rate - they don't worry about humane conditions etc.

mamazon · 04/08/2007 20:40

and in brazil the police will just round up street children and shoot them behind a police van.

that is such a strong deterant that people hide when the local police van patrols....sadly the violance and crime in one brazilian town would beat the entire of the uk's i would imagine.

the threat of violance is not a valid response to violance