Anyone want to discuss whether there is any justification to viewing a scene of graphic violence

[Twiglett]

I was just responding to Leati regarding the viewing of the prisoner beating video when the thread was pulled.

I do think that the discussion was probably worthwhile .. and I heartily applaud the thread being pulled.

My question is this

What is the moral justification for clicking on a link you have been pre-warned is a realtime video of graphic violence against a prisoner convicted of viewing paedophiliac images

How is it any different from clicking on a link that is real video of graphic violence against anyone else?

the daily mail trades in fear. that it it's USP. that and it's astrologer jonathan cainer.

I'm afraid that it seems that UCM, you buy into that completely and totally. you are motivated by fear and loathing.

the murder rate is steady.

public perception is of crime rates gone wild. and where does that perception come from? THE DAILY MAIL ET AL.

Sophable as I said below, the USA is a vast huge country made up of many mini ones IYKWIM. Each state has different laws etc.

The UK isn't like that, the laws apply everywhere and there are the very same resources to each and every part of the UK. There are no shanty towns in the UK but many parts of the USA still operate with John Wayne as Sherriff and kermit as his deputy. That, is why you cannot compare the US with the UK.

i knew a daily mail journalist. i had a massive row with him about a piece he wrote about an IRA bombing that was incredibly emotive and inciting and fear driven. he was an intelligent man, and an excellent journalist. his justification was 'it sells papers and they pay more money than the broadsheets'. says it all really.

i knew a daily mail journalist. i had a massive row with him about a piece he wrote about an IRA bombing that was incredibly emotive and inciting and fear driven. he was an intelligent man, and an excellent journalist. his justification was 'it sells papers and they pay more money than the broadsheets'. says it all really.

UCM i specifically discussed the states in which the death penalty is legal. your argument is a nonsense. try harder please.

www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

'since the early 1960s the number of homicides per million has more than doubled.'

Twiglett, I think I replied to your OP
but just for emphasis:
the link was not to the video.

The link was to the article.
Even the graphic pictures were further towards the bottom of the page.
You had to scroll down to see them.

To recap:

You had to take a conscious decision to click on the thread.
Then you had to take another conscious decision to read the article and scroll down to the gruesome pictures.
Finally, you had to take a third conscious decision to view the video.
(or rather find it - I did not spot it)

The debate was about the idea behind the video not about the video itself.
And there was no need to watch the video to add to the debate.

err...since the 60s???/

with the growth in cities?

sorry but put in perspective that is actually pretty steady.

UCM there is a vast difference between public spending in different area's of the country.

the facilites that are offered by one borough may not even exist in another.

Also the fact that things are getting worse. Please find me shootings of boys under 16 that happened previous to 1970. People are getting nastier and nastier.

I watched a woman in the park berate two boys climbing up the slide when her child was coming down it. The parent of the climbing up children went mad at her and had it not been for the fact that she could obviously stick up for herself I would have involved myself. They ended up fighting so I am glad I didn't. This sort of thing doesn't usually happen in our park, but I have seen it a few times.

A neighbour of ours was recently burgled. He happened to walk in as they had finished and was beaten & shat on because how very dare he. They were 14 & 15, as thankfully they have been caught. But give them 'love' and they will not do it again. I think if you gave them a mighty bloody whipping, they wouldn't and neither would any of their poxy friends, cos that is so frightening, that they just wouldn't.

Recently a lorry driver died because a block was thrown off a bridge. One of the boys was scared about what they had done and told his father IIRC. One of the boys, not the boy who actually threw the brick.

What will be the deterrent for your children not to act like this. Because you have told them not to? What about when they are with children who haven't because their parents don't give a shit.

Oh but we need to educate people, I hear the cry. But it's not fucking working, the need for a serious deterrent in this country has never been more obvious. You cannot make every parent in this country into a good one, it's impossible. You have to have loopholes that override bad parenting.

So if that means corporal punishment. So be it. The UK cannot do it as it's illegal under the EU or whatever. So pulling out of that to start with might be a touch.

This is not the Daily Mail talking. It's real life.

I am not terribly good with essays or writing this sort of stuff down.

Oh and if you think I am angry. I am not. I only get angry on here.

So who will be the first person to make a personal comment. I hope you don't as I will listen to what you have to say even if I don't agree.

UCM. please please please find me some evidence that corporal punishment and death penalty actually work.

unless you take them to the nth degree (would you like to live in saudi arabia?) in a totally despotic draconian society.

Physical violence is not illegal to view in the UK and rightly not so. It is important that all mumsnetters that believe in human rights ensure this Government doesn't curb our rights even more than they already have done, with any new legislation in these kinds of areas.

Just because some of us don't like to watch certain things doesn't mean we should want them banned. We should be defending others' rights to do things we don't like. That's a free society.

Sophable, I truly think that including corporal punishment into our everyday laws would work. Even if only 10 people were put off murdering (in the cricket case), beating senseless (in the burglary case). It would be 10 less victims.

The countries that use corporal punishment, do not seem to suffer from the arrogant, complete fuckwits that this country does.

Saudi Arabia is not a good country to compare to ours as if you live there, you are either very very poor or very very rich. It doesn't have the same structure to it that ours does.

It saddens me to think that some of you would have to have something really awful happen to you before you even have an opinion on the people who have done this to you. Perhaps I know too many people who have had.

which countries UCM? which countries that use corporal punishment and are comparable to ours and don't have crime and would be wonderful to live in? which ones????

honestly. honestly and truthfully do you really think that these children that grow up to become murderers come from families that love them to death? do you not realise that they come from in the main violent families. that violence really does beget violence???//don't you know that?

which countries UCM? which countries that use corporal punishment and are comparable to ours and don't have crime and would be wonderful to live in? which ones????

honestly. honestly and truthfully do you really think that these children that grow up to become murderers come from families that love them to death? do you not realise that they come from in the main violent families. that violence really does beget violence???//don't you know that?

Xenia I didn't suggest that it was illegal to watch or to link to videos of violence. However UCM was suggesting that the violence shown on the video should be handed out to paedophiles. Incitement to violence - encouraging others to carry out violent acts - IS illegal, I believe.

my father went to a school which was closed down due to violance. the stories he tells me are so horrific i actually had a nightmare once that DS was sent there.

crime is different but its not worse. there may not have been so many guns on the street but there was a lot more thuggery.
take football violance, it barely exists now but in the late 70's - 80's it was rife.

there will always be mindless thugs who violance and aggression fun, how they choose todisplay this moronic behaviour alters with the times.
then it was football fights, now its drive by shooting. technology i guess.

but you are altering your argument now UCM. you started with requesting that peadophiles be beaten as in the video. now you are saying that if we were more violant as a society it would cure the violance on the streets.

im sirry but it just m,akes no sense to me

I don't think anyone's got any evidence that corporal/capital punishment works have they? (happy to be proven wrong but I thought that was pretty much established)

it's a civilised society that decides loss of freedom is better than violence. imo.

and UCM before you go thinking 'oh, usually pc nutters, how predictable' (you don't say it but maybe you think it at times ) please realise that if corporal punishment worked really well, and was the panacea for violence and eradicated it then in this country we would have it. IT DOES NOT WORK AND YOU HAVE NOT GIVE A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF IT DOING SO.

Ok, Soph I hear what you are saying and when I have smacked my DS for smacking his little sister, I totally and utterly know what you are saying. But these are little children who have to learn that some behaviours are not acceptable, however I get it through and that's not trying to cause another debate.

But I speak to youths, many who have been 'in the system' and I have actually asked them if the 'system' stops them from committing yet another crime. The resounding answer is no. For some it's 3 meals a day and the gas & electric not being cut off.

So a tougher deterrent than that, imo, needs to be drawn up. Be it national service...oh hold on, there would be people who are anti war who would say that they don't want their childs human rights violated by being put in the army..... The whole laws and stuff have made me think the way I do.

For every wrong committed, it seems there is a human right stopping the person who committed the wrong in the first place taking responsibility for their actions.

And I challenge you to find somewhere that isn't going anarchic to live. You wont find it in Europe as we are all living under the same tree. What you will find are many disgruntled people just like me

UCM to clarify it was my job to work with youths who had experianced the most disgusting treatment imaginable...and worse.

within that mix were thsoe who had been sexually abused, physically abused to the point of torture until almost dead.

i have had to sit in with a 6 year old and her 3 year old sister whilst they give a statement via a play therapist.
they had been raped repeatedly by the man who lived next door.
i have family members who are foster carers specialising in the care of abused children.

i have been raped and physically abused by my ex partner.

i think i have plenty of first hand experiance of trauma and violance, i still believe that the treatment you propose is wrong

Just a thought, but do you have drive by shootings and muggings in Saudi. Or people being killed whilst playing cricket with their fathers by some youths who just happen to be bored.

We have completely different social problems here imo.

So how could we know that it won't work in the UK in todays society unless we tried it. The UK has changed vastly in the last 30 years.