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Original poster

A small rant about a stupid situation, re: SAHMs and childcare...

249 replies

TooTicky · 15/06/2007 14:13

WHY is it that SAHMs are looked down on so often but people who look after children for a living are not?
I don't want to go out to work until my dd2 is at school because I want to look after her myself. But if somebody else looked after her, I would have to pay them.
There is something very wrong in this situation but I can't put my finger on the solution - unless SAHMs received an allowance for staying at home with their young children.
And there is so much legislation these days that it is very hard to find a job you can do with your child present.

OP posts:
Original poster
TooTicky · 15/06/2007 14:41

Ooh, lots of replies! Okay, firstly, I didn't start this thread to be controversial, just to vent my frustration at my skintness vs my strong wish to stay with dd2 while she is little.

Also, I do not look down on anyone. My wish to be with my dcs full time before they start school is a personal thing and I have every respect for those who choose to work.

Now, it seems daft to me that somebody else would receive money for looking after my dd if I worked, whereas I can look after her, do housework, gardening and anything else that needs doing and receive nothing.

And years ago, people did work with their children more - less officious regulations, child could play happily behind counter in small shop, etc. And in other (poorer)countries mothers often have their children with them while they work. Obviously this is not always ideal.

Oh, I'm not quite saying what I want to say - can't quite express it.

OP posts:
TaylorsMummy · 15/06/2007 14:42

you could childmind if you want paying while looking after your dd?

Anna8888 · 15/06/2007 14:42

bobsmum - as a SAHM you do need to engineer opportunities to spend time with other adults. It's a basic human necessity and a way of warding off PND and feelings of isolation.

One of the ways some SAHMs do this is by having a babysitter or some childcare. It may seem from the outside to be a huge self-indulgence (especially when it's used for beauty treatments etc) but a lot of it is just to do with human contact and the way that that is available in modern society.

I am a SAHM and I don't have any childcare, BTW, even though I could (money is not the issue). But I don't condemn those who do, unless it's all day every day and they never see their children.

nearlythere · 15/06/2007 14:43

personally i think the notion of being paid to stay at home and play with your OWN children is quite disturbing- the uk would crumble as there would no longer be a workforce!

MissGolightly · 15/06/2007 14:43

But TT just because you can do something yourself rather than paying someone else to do it, it doesn't mean YOU should get paid for doing it!

So, I clean my own house rather than paying for a cleaner. Does that mean the government should pay me for cleaning my house?

nearlythere · 15/06/2007 14:45
Original poster
TooTicky · 15/06/2007 14:45

No, I'm not saying that SAHMs should be paid as such. (Although an allowance would be useful). Just seems ludicrous that a job (childcare) is created by a mum going out to do a different job. If she didn't go out to work, there would be 0 jobs instead of 2. Am I making sense yet?

OP posts:
ConnieDescending · 15/06/2007 14:46

sorry, still find it bizarre!

My DH painted the living room yesterday - should someone have paid him the going rate of a decorator?

Original poster
TooTicky · 15/06/2007 14:46

Oh bollocks. I'm still not managing to say quite what I mean.

OP posts:
GameGirly · 15/06/2007 14:47

Good point,MissG. I would like a tax rebate please for the fact that I cleaned my house until gone midnight last night and don't have a cleaner. I'm a WOHM so I have to do my chores at night!

Anna8888 · 15/06/2007 14:49

MissGolightly - yes, I'm a great believer in women needing to reevaluate their role as mothers and ensure it is properly valued by everyone - fathers, children and society at large.

I certainly don't think I should receive a wage for staying at home, though I think that most developed countries provide some kind of child allowance/tax benefits for having children.

However, I do think that it is vitally important that breadwinning fathers of SAHM value the role that the mothers of their children have taken on. It is for women to negotiate this as much as for men to recognise it. If there were more collective debate between SAHMs it would be easier to do - we need a MUCH more powerful collective voice IMO.

MissGolightly · 15/06/2007 14:49

But tooticky that's the principle of the economy! By creating 2 jobs you've created two lots of tax, two lots of national insurance, two contributions towards GDP, etc etc etc.

Of COURSE the government wants us all to work, it's what makes the UK a profitable country. If we all stayed at home and grew our own vegetables and milled our own flour and lived in houses made of mud then there would be 0 economy and the UK would be a third world country. I know this is extreme, but it's the logical extension of your point.

GameGirly · 15/06/2007 14:54

MissG, don't you sometimes think that would be nice? That we all become self-sufficient and say stuff work, I mean? I love that idea! Trouble is, I do like LK Bennett shoes ... Then again, there wouldn't be an LKB if we all lived in mud huts, and definitely nowhere to wear them. There are days (today!) when I would love to give it all up and just be me and my family looking after each other.

nearlythere · 15/06/2007 14:54

mumsnet at its best!

Wisteria · 15/06/2007 14:54

I certainly think you should be able to transfer your tax allowance to working partner if you do decide to SAH; and I understand what you're trying to say TT. I'm a SAHM (do a bit of pt work from home) and my DC's are definitely not pre-school, I must be lower than low!! It's what you feel more comfortable with that's important and no one should look down on anyone!

Anna8888 · 15/06/2007 14:55

MissGolightly - yes, the sad thing for many women is that their prime child bearing years coincide with their prime earning years and it is very hard to reconcile the two. This is a major issue in all Western economies but I do see rays of hope on the horizon that governments are beginning to recognise that they cannot have simultaneous policies of "all women at work" and "all children should be cared for to very high standards" and leaving the dilemma to be resolved, at great personal anguish, to the women themselves.

Original poster
TooTicky · 15/06/2007 14:55

Bugger the economy. And the government.
[TT shuffles off to tend veg patch and build windmill]

OP posts:
yomellamoHelly · 15/06/2007 14:58

I don't think most people understand how busy a day can be looking after little ones. (Well if you want to enjoy some time with them/ stimulate them yadda yadda as well as keep on top of everything else that is.)

Haven't stopped since I got up this morning - and need to wake ds2 from his nap to feed him so that's 5 whole minutes then.

Also even though dh knows the boys are hard-work, I still don't feel he completely "gets" it and probably never will since I'm not going to disappear for more than a few hours here and there ever.

That said it has been my choice and I do know it's short-term so I don't resent not being paid for staying at home with my boys. I think they'll benefit from it and I enjoy it.

If there were no choice that'd be another matter.

Anna8888 · 15/06/2007 14:58

Oh, I have major self-sufficiency days. And I spend lots of time mentally calculating the additional costs I would incur by working (car, clothes, childcare, haircuts, lunches) and trying to prove that they are greater than my earnings would be... and of course also convincing myself I don't want those same car, clothes etc

ViciousSquirrelSpotter · 15/06/2007 14:59

Don't worry only mysogynists look down on SAHMS

Agree with whoever it was who said mothers are looked down on. I'd go further and say ultimately, women are looked down on. Hence the delighted seizing of the opportunity to point fingers at them when they become mothers, whether SAHM's or WOHMs.

GameGirly · 15/06/2007 15:02

You needn't calculate the costs of car, clothes, haircuts or lunches as part of the life of a WOHM, Anna. I'm dressed from head to toe in Primark, take the bus to work, rarely have a haircut and take a packed lunch every day. Minimal cost, overall. Sadly, despite working, I still can't afford to spend much on luxuries!

NKF · 15/06/2007 15:04

It's not legislation that makes it hard to find a job you can do with your child present. It's the fact that when people pay you, they are buying your time, attention, involvement, ideas etc. And if a child is there, then you're already giving those things to him or her.

shhhh · 15/06/2007 15:07

conniedesending, right name for you I see.!

BTW "I'm SAHM and I find the concept of being paid to look after my own children completly bizarre and illogical. Its not a job! "

WTF..?!! Being a sahm is not a job..? Hmmm, obviously you aren't doing it right.! LOL..!!

Im a sahm and I find it rewarding but bloody hard work. In fact similar to how "work" was prior to me having my lo's. BUT at least I could arrive at the office at 9am and leave at 5pm.

Its such a shame there is such a gap between us sahm and wohm. Out of my friends im the only sahm and the comments and little digs I get from them is amazing. Such a shame really. IMO its jealousy on their part.

I agree with other posts,this thread has been done so many times and always raises an argument but don't think that was tooticky's intention.

Anna8888 · 15/06/2007 15:09

GameGirly - depends on kind of work. The kind of work I usually do requires quite a bit of dressing up and looking smart, and it's only really worth the investment in appearance, car etc if I do it pretty much full-on. I'm going to work this Autumn, but very marginally, and then I'll see what happens.

I actually really don't care about work clothes, hair cuts etc. I did, in the dim distant past, get a kick out of flying to Milan for the weekend to buy a new working wardrobe for the winter, but I really, truly would never want to spend that kind of money on clothes again.

So now I wear Gap, FatFace etc and feel very comfortable.

NKF · 15/06/2007 15:10

I do draw a distinction between job and work though. I think a job is work you're paid for.