Really worried about a dad going on dd's school trip. Not police checked & I have concerns

[sotroubled]

I was a regular although lapsed but have changed my name as I know some other local mums.
dd is at a nursery school and there is a dad of one of her class mates that really troubles me. He is very over familiar with the children, particularly the girls. dds class is typically 3 to 4 years old.
I have seen him cuddling little girls at parties, stroking their hair and I am 99% convinced that I saw him pull his hand out from beneath one of dd's friend's skirts when she was sat on the floor in front of him at a party. As I came into the hallway, he retracted his hand. That's what I thought I saw.
He is always inviting dd over for tea and his dw wanted her to stay the night. Needless to say, I've made excuses so she hasn't gone there apart from with me.
I may have this all wrong. He may just be an over-familiar chap who perhaps has no idea as to how his actions may be construed. I know there is another mum who finds it odd but she thinks he is OK but just a little naive. Dh is convinced he is (or is a potential) a paedophile.
Today, I learned that he accompanied the class on their last trip and is going on the next one to a Farm. I can'tgo as I'm in Scotland and dh can't go as he is allergic to animals. We are now really uneasy about this and contemplating not letting dd go but that's so unfair on her.
I am planning to have a private word with the teacher but I can only say that I have uneasy feelings about this man. That isn't enough to stop him being able to go.
Do I ignore my worries and say nothing or do I speak to the teacher and what do I do about sending her on the trip.
I can't stop worrying about it and I know I may have got it all wrong as well but I just feel so very sue he is not right.

Good for you. Is tricky situation x

well done for tackling this awful predicament..... hope all works out...

not read the whole thread sotroubled, but it seems everyone has said to pull your dd from the trip, what about all the other children on the trip and also this man's dc?

i know it is difficult for you, but it seems to me you have a hunch about this man and you should follow your instincts, of course, there is the worry that he is completely innocent, but can you take the chance?

i know a family that has been torn apart, because most of the family would not believe that the man in question could do anything to a child.

although the question is, what do you do, and i'm afraid, i just don't know, could you have a quiet word with the teacher or even a local police officer?

I know this is a bit of a silly question

But why is no one else surprised about this man asking for OPs DD to go to stay overnight aged 3 or 4 years old

IMHO that is very young for school friend sleepovers isn't it?????

We had our best friends' DD over to stay when they were about 4 years old cos they were going away for the night but her DD and DS had been together since tiny babies. We had been away on holiday together etc so IMHO a different situation

BUT I would think sending DD to this man's house aged 3 or 4 extremely strange idea

Don't you?????????????

?

I wouldn't let DD do sleepovers back then (not sure I would yet unless I knew family well), but I do know of one family where they have encouraged sleep-overs of friends from nursery age and even very early on in reception year. I think to some it is quite normal.

Of course you can make an anonymous tip off to SS, I've helped people do it before at work (and if you do give your name there is no way whatsoever they would release it)

The NSPCC helpline number will also talk you anonymously through the oprions, I did that when I needed to cnsider reporting a close friend. No-one there even asked my name, they have a website with info on it for this number

And the car incident? Doesn't sound like paranoia to me.

I can remember as a child staying over with some friends. We all got on very well (the three girls there and my older sister and I). I do remember the dad coming downstairs into the kitchen in his pjs, with his knob hanging out and I remember being very shocked and so embarrassed that I didn't say anything to anyone.

Not long afterwards, my sister and I were stopped from going there and we didn't understand why. Some time later the mum and the girls just disappeared. I only discovered when I was an adult that my dad actually took them to the train station in the middle of the night so that they could escape. Later the dad used to hang around our house until the police stopped him.

Turned out that he was abusing the girls and beating up his wife. My parents became suspicious about his behaviour, as he kept asking if we could go and stay over with his daughters.

So, if you have any concerns (and yours seem fairly well founded and shared by other parents), speak to someone about it. Who knows? You could save his wife and children from who knows what.

I think the idea to ring the NSPCC to talk through your feelings, the events, and your options is a really really good idea. That would be the first place I'd start...

Maybe this is useless info:
In the last 5 years I have been CRB checked 5 (yes 5) times. DH job, means every adult who lives in our home needs to be CRB checked, then we had a lodger who DH got a job (another check). Then my DSis got a civilian job with the police and I had to be checked again (who would of thought of that!) Then one for my job, I then started helping with DD Guide troup and needed to be checked again, this was a mere 5 weeks after the last one had come through. I was told that no matter how many times you are checked the CRB people would only tell people that you have done the check for if you have done anything wrong, ie, the guides would only know what the NHS (m job) check showed, whilst of I did anything wrong the CRB people would tell the NHS but not know to tell the guide troup.
I then offered to help DS class with reading on a friday .. and yes you guessed it I am at present going through yet another CRB check. I know this might not help the OP, but I suppose what I am trying to say is if I HAD to have that many CRB checks and the school still insisted on one when I will be in the class room with the teacher and 2 LSA, then maybe the problem is the OP's Nursery.

Just to be clear private schools are not CRB exempt and if he is not CRB checked he should not be going on a trip and I would not be sending my child to a school that showed disregard for this

This is a difficult one.Maybe he just is so used to playing and touching his own child in a certain way that he treats all kids the same.I am not saying it is appropriate but also would seriously affect him and his family if you report him.Gossip in school playgrounds is rife and his daughter could get wind of it and kids are so cruel.He is unlikely to do anything on a school trip with other parents and teachers around so think that is probably a safer place than in his home.Just be aware but not hasty

I'm not CRB checked and I've helped on many a school trip. Most of the parents who help at my daughter's school probably haven't been CRB'd either and we've accompanied children to the toilet on these trips, often 'unsupervised' by another adult (boys we wait for outside the outer door for obvious reasons, girls we wait for outside the cubicles).

Re this man, if you are uncomfortable with the situation then raise it with the nursery manager but be very careful not to make any direct accusations unless you are very sure of what you saw. If he's innocent, an allegation of this sort could ruin him and even if he is a paedophile, then really it is something that the police should be addressing in context with taking action against him. Do the children at the nursery seem happy in his presence or do they shy from him?

I take it Disclosure forms are just a Scottish thing then? We need them simply to be members of the PSA regardless of whether we are going to help out with child related events.

I am a little concerned over accusing someone of something so serious. Although I fully believe in trusting your instincts I would perhaps have done or said something 6 months ago at the party. As others have said there are places, such as NSPCC who would be able to advise you on such things. Remember that as mentioned due to recent events, a child is usually abused by someone in their family.

But be very, very careful.

My dh was distant in getting involved with dts nursery incase someone thought it odd he wanted to help out. I suppose incase someone thought well, if he is interested he must be a paedophile. When he eventually helped out he had a great time, the kids had a great time because all the nursery teachers are women and dh had thought up fun racing games and such for them to do. Even now they are in primary school he still gets good feedback from both parents and kids and is always recognised. Since he helped out there has only been one other father willing to do so. One. Out of a possible (including morning and afternoon sessions) 80+. Dh was just happy he got to play with their train set.

Message withdrawn

have you googled the dads name to see if anything comes up?

RTKM, I thought it was odd as well but when I mentioned it another (nonschool friend), she thought I was odd for thinking it was odd IYKWIM.
I'm dropping off at school tomorrow so will be asking the teacher if she can ensure that dd is with my friend.
I think dh still thinks we should do more and part of me does too, but it may end up being really stressful and neither of us needs that right now. Expect that makes me incredibly selfish

Missmarple. I hadn't but I have now and it just brings up stuff relating to his work which is in scientific research

oops, the other mum hasnt talked to the school, just spoken to our mutual friend

verruccasalt, they are drawn to him

We take parents on school trips who are not cRB checked however we do not leave them with the children. A member of staff has to be with them. they cannot even take the children to the loo.

My dad was very tactile when we were kids, and still is today. We hug and kiss when we say hello and goodbye, he has always been that way. When we had friends round, he would be more reserved though as his loving gestures were intended for his family only IYSWIM. I think it is sad in this day and age a father is viewed with suspicion if he shows any physical affection for his children. Maybe this man is so used to being tactile with his own daughter that he doens't see what an issue it is when he is the same way with other peoples children? Would you all be clammering for his head if it was the mother that was being so touchy feely? The thing that has shocked me in my time as a nanny, I have read so many reports of the rise in women paedophiles yet society still doesn't seem to accept this could be a problem. Child abuse is as likely to be by a woman as a man and yet we are all so programmed to think men are the only ones capable. I think before this man's life is totally ruined, he needs the opportunity to be found innocent or guilty by the appropriate authorities. So if the OP is suspicious she needs to alert the appropriate authorities and let them do their job. I liked one of the PP phrases: paedo-panic. There is simply no good to be gained from creating a chinese whisper style paedo-panic about this man. If the OP is seriously concerned then she needs to stop talking with her DH and the other mothers and tell the NSPCC or social services. 6 months has gone passed since her viewing the roving hand incident and I know if I was her, anything like that would have led me straight to telling someone who could actually have done something to investigate. All this chatting in RL and on MN about stuff like this just seems to either prolong any abuse if there is abuse going on, or cause a witchhunt in the community either way it's not a great situation for anyone involved.

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit harsh. I myself was abused by a family member (not my dad) and I learnt just very recently that someone else knew and they did nothing as they weren't "sure". A suspicion should be reported so it can be investigated. It should not be whispered and chatted about as weeks and months go by. Whether or not this man has a CRB is immaterial really. He may have committed abuse and got away with it. A CRB is not a guarantee of someone being a safe person for kids to be around, as by its very nature it expires as soon as you get it IYSWIM.

FWIW, we found out recently that a youth club leader we knew (and an alleged pillar of the local church community ) was found guily of abusing children way way back in the 1980s and is in prison now for these offences. It'd be easy to look back and say 'oh we always knew there was something funny about Mr xxxxxxx' but in retrospect my parents had no idea - they just didn't really like him. My brother claimed that there was something iffy about him but then he was so damned awkward until about the age of 25 anyway no one would have given credence to his stories if he'd said that the moon was made out of cheese or if Maggie Thatcher had been PM then. As it turned out, he wasn't one of the children affected. Obvously this was before the days of CRB-checking/list 99 but even so, if there were no queries against this man's name, they would still have been useless.

I think CRB checks are a red herring here.

I think you should only send your dd on the trip if your friend promises to look after her at all times.

I think it would be fair enough to mention your concerns to the school, confidentially because the risk of not doing something is greater, imho, than that of doing something because:

It's not just you who feels uncomfortable You thought you saw something
Your instincts (and your dh's) may be right
3/4 is VERY young to be asking for a sleepover

nannyk, sorry to hear of your history and I'm sure it upsets you when you here someone like me mithering. I do feel guilty about not challenging him at the time. I remember feeling an immediate rush of shock, followed by "he can't have done that" and from that moment on, I never took my eyes off him for the rest of the party. I am sorry that I didn't do something then and perhaps I am wrong for not making this "official" now but as some other posters said, as I am not 100 percent sure, I can't risk runing his life.

I spoke to the class teacher today and just asked her to arrange for dd to be looked after by my friend that day. She asked why and I just said that I was uncomfortable with one of the parents on the trip - she got quite shirty and said "I wish someone had mentioned this to me before. Why is this suddenly becoming an issue? She then went on to talk about the fact that my friend had told her about her concerns with XX which I know she was asked to keep confidential so there's not much hope of her keeping it confidential if I say any more than I have already.