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Original poster

Really worried about a dad going on dd's school trip. Not police checked & I have concerns

114 replies

sotroubled · 15/05/2007 22:18

I was a regular although lapsed but have changed my name as I know some other local mums.
dd is at a nursery school and there is a dad of one of her class mates that really troubles me. He is very over familiar with the children, particularly the girls. dds class is typically 3 to 4 years old.
I have seen him cuddling little girls at parties, stroking their hair and I am 99% convinced that I saw him pull his hand out from beneath one of dd's friend's skirts when she was sat on the floor in front of him at a party. As I came into the hallway, he retracted his hand. That's what I thought I saw.
He is always inviting dd over for tea and his dw wanted her to stay the night. Needless to say, I've made excuses so she hasn't gone there apart from with me.
I may have this all wrong. He may just be an over-familiar chap who perhaps has no idea as to how his actions may be construed. I know there is another mum who finds it odd but she thinks he is OK but just a little naive. Dh is convinced he is (or is a potential) a paedophile.
Today, I learned that he accompanied the class on their last trip and is going on the next one to a Farm. I can'tgo as I'm in Scotland and dh can't go as he is allergic to animals. We are now really uneasy about this and contemplating not letting dd go but that's so unfair on her.
I am planning to have a private word with the teacher but I can only say that I have uneasy feelings about this man. That isn't enough to stop him being able to go.
Do I ignore my worries and say nothing or do I speak to the teacher and what do I do about sending her on the trip.
I can't stop worrying about it and I know I may have got it all wrong as well but I just feel so very sue he is not right.

OP posts:
Tamum · 15/05/2007 23:11

Oh blimey no,I don't think anyone was suggesting approaching them about this particular case, that would be wildly inappropriate - the idea was to ask for advice about the general policy.

unknownrebelbang · 15/05/2007 23:13

So it was, I misread the post.

hana · 15/05/2007 23:16

i needed a crb to help out in dd's classroom for 1.5 hours every week - am never in charge of children
don't think parents are crb'ed if they do a one off class trip tho

oops · 15/05/2007 23:16

Message withdrawn

annh · 15/05/2007 23:21

Agree that the CRB check isn't really the issue here. Mine was done a while ago so theoretically I could have done something unlawful since then and school might not know about it.

dontgetmestarted · 15/05/2007 23:22

If for whatever reason,you don't feel comfortable with your daughter going on the trip then you must trust your own feelings. (mothers instinct and all that)At the end of the day, this is your dc and you shouldn't for one second, feel guilty that you might be offending anyone by feeling/thinking what you do. you are here to protect your child, not to spare anyone's feelings. your daughter's safety is far more important.
If it was me and i had even the slightest feeling that i wasn't comfortable with one of the helpers, than i wouldn't send her.

Londonmamma · 15/05/2007 23:25

I'd be interested to know how the children are with him? Is he someone they like or do they shy away from him a bit? What is his daughter like?

I really agree that you shouldn't say anything directly to a teacher - it won't stay private and could have really bad repercussions.

katelyle · 15/05/2007 23:30

I suppose, with hindsight, the thing to do would have been to say something to the man when you thought you saw him acting inappropriately - along the lines of "What on earth were you doing?" Not easy - but telling the Social Services would probably result in such dire consequences for him that it seems hardly fair to go down that route without giving him the opportunity to explain himself.

oops · 15/05/2007 23:37

Message withdrawn

madamez · 15/05/2007 23:49

THe OP did mention that children seem to like this man and enjoy spending time with him, which kind of suggests that he's not harmful.
He would have to be pretty psychotically confident to assault children during a party when their parents are there, after all

Original poster
sotroubled · 16/05/2007 08:59

Thanks for all your comments which are all really helpful. Dh and I talked long into the night about this and have decided not to send dd. Apparently, my friend has already told the teacher that she is so uncomfortable with this man that she has decided to go on the trip herself. She hasn't elaborated but has basically expained that she has issues with her child being around him. May I just add that she is a very balanced and sensible lady - not someone prone to making a fuss about nothing or judging people.
I feel guilty about not sending dd on the trip as she's looking forward to it and it's her last term at the pre-school before she goes to a different school. However, we feel very strongly about this - dh made a comment about him long before I had my suspisions and I told dh he was being OTT. The more I see him with children and just his general demeanour and behaviour, the less comfortable I am.
Thsoe of you who said not to go the school or social services are probably right - they can't do anything unless I make it official. If I am wrong, then this will have a devestating imapct on him and his family. His dd is very sweet - she's been to play here a few times and was fine.
Maybe he is just incredibly unaware and doesn't realise that his touchy feely behaviour may be mis-construed - I really hope that's all it is.

OP posts:
OtterInnit · 16/05/2007 09:02

the fact that children love being with him is a TOTAL red herring
of course children like being round paedophiles....they make sure of it

OtterInnit · 16/05/2007 09:02

sotroubled - i am glad you have decided what to do

bea · 16/05/2007 09:18

sotroubled... my only concern is that if your suspicions are true... wouldn't you feel that you should have said something? what if you didn't say anything and then in the future some terrible events came to light.

I would hate to be in your shoes and completely understand about not wanting to make it official... and sorry if i'm sticking a spoke in your wheels...

spook · 16/05/2007 09:40

This thread has made me very uncomfortable for some reason.
I can completely understand your worries sotroubled and I do believe in a mothers instinct.
But- your friend has already told the school that she's not happy about this man being around her dd so I think you have taken the right decision about pulling your dd from the trip and leaving it at that.
At the end of the day he won't (hopefully) be alone with any of the children and presumably your friend will be watching him like a hawk anyway.
I am incredibly touchy feely with other peoples children because I just love a good hug but it is construed very differently when a man does it-I understand that.
Not really sure what I'm trying to say but there does seem to be a level of hysteria coming through and I hate to think that this poor man is just a little misguided with his affection.
However-you are obviously very concerned and I empathise with that too.

islandofsodor · 16/05/2007 11:56

A few of you have asked about the law with regards to CRB checks. The law does NOT say that anyone working with children has to be CRB checked.

The law does state, however that organisations which include private schools HAVE to ensure that no-one unsuitable is given access to the children. The only current way which would stand up in court as having taken every reasonable precaution, to ensure this is to carry out a CRB check. They are not perfect, as someone pointed out already, they only show someone hasn't been caught yet and they are only as valid as the day that they are done but it still remains.

I would be very, very very wary of any school/nursery/organisation that does not carry out CRB checks on all its staff.

We are a private arts organisation and we CRB check not only all our staff and helpers but also any admin people (eg me) who have access to children's records.

SoupDragon · 16/05/2007 12:04

sotroubled, why don't you let your DD go on the trip and insist she be with your friend who has decided to go along. That way you have someone who shares your concerns looking out for your DD and your DD doesn't have to miss the trip.

PeachyChocolateEClair · 16/05/2007 12:13

OK: you can have someone not CRB's with kids as longa s they are not left alone with kids under any circs. The actual plicy on CRB checking varies with different school

CRB checks are of limited use anyhow. They only id poeple who have been caught offending.

If you really thought you swa that, you should contact someone. Someone did this to my sister once, she ran off laughing - years later he was imprisoned for serious and repeated child abuse!!!

Any other Dad I'd have said get a grip (thats what i thought it would be from the tile) but in this case you need to tell someone- even if ts only the teacher what you saw. How do you know this wont be the last piece of a complex puzzle?

PeachyChocolateEClair · 16/05/2007 12:15

And if you report to someone NOBODY would ID you as the person giving information. They're not allowed to.

NKF · 16/05/2007 12:17

CRB checks only tell you so much. It wouldn't tell you if someone is a paedophile he'd they'd come to the attention of the police.

NKF · 16/05/2007 12:19

Sorry - unless he'd come to the attention of the police.

EllieG · 16/05/2007 12:25

Sorry to butt in - am social worker with child protection team and we get lots of stuff like this - really think you should tell the school your concerns. You can ask them to make sure you remain anon but is important this kind of stuff is passed on and logged. If there is nothing to it nothing will come of it, but there may be something really horrid there, and you can't take the chance of not telling where vulnerable children are concerned. Ask the school to inform you what they are going to do with the info (they should really pass it on to their CP person in school, who should inform social services or police I think so checks can be done) and take it further if you do not get a satisfactory response. If this bloke has nothing to hide then there is no harm doing this. You can't take the chance.

edam · 16/05/2007 12:36

EllieG, that's an interesting post. I haven't posted on this thread before because I really didn't know what to say. The risks of not saying anything if he is dodgy against the risks of possibly causing real harm to someone who is innocent are so hard to weigh up.

Just from my own experiences and acquaintances I know of cases where actual and potential child abusers have got away with it for some years, and one other where false accusations have caused devastation. (False accusation case was to do with what seems to be very bad practice by the police, not social services at all, as the people were now adults.)

So it is very helpful to have Ellie's POV.

bea · 16/05/2007 12:42

Ellie-G thank you fore being much more eloquent then me! That's exactly what i was trying to say! Blame baby brains for lack of 'flow and succintness!'

Original poster
sotroubled · 16/05/2007 16:51

Thanks for your messages. The point about us not doing anything and then finding out years later that he has abused someone is exactly what dh has been saying to me all day. He doesn't feel we should just leave it. The party incident was over 6 months ago and if I was 100% positive I would have tackled him there and then and reported him. I didn't because I wasn't looking directly at him. I ws turning round to leave a room and thought I saw it. Funnily enought he went to move his car shortly after this happened and blocked me in for 25 minutes, refusing to move it when I said I needed to go. Maybe that was a "don't mess with me" sign - that does sound a bit paranoid though!
My friend has told me that she will look after dd but I will still need to speak to her teacher to say that is the condition on which I will allow dd to go on the trip so no doubt, teacher will put 2+2 together.
When I spoke to my friend today, she was with another school mum and she said that mum had tried to get on the school trip but there were no helper places left. She also said that the mum had expressed her concerns over this man's odd behaviour to her as well.
If I could make an anonymous call to Social Services to say that I have concerns about this man I would but that doesn't seem possible.
dh is going to make an effort to come to the next party that he is likely to be at and if he thinks he is being over familiar with the kids he says he will speak to him and ask him how he thinks his actions may look to other parents.

OP posts:
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